Which of these amps would sound best

[kevinsonic]

Yes! Just buy the one that seems to be in the best condition and has the feature set you need.

this would be the denon pma 450 special edition or the marantz pm53
the denon i have seen the inside, completely clean, the marantz the seller says its been serviced.

 

[kevinsonic]

Why do you want to believe that genres are best amplified by certain amps? That's complete nonsense. Not knowing your country or market for audio, hard to know what a best value might be among your choices. I'd look to new amps rather than old amps in any case, even if you need to save up some money. The max wattage of a speaker is fairly meaningless, especially trying to match amp power needed....that would be a combination of distance from speakers, your listening level and the speakers' sensitivity.

ps meant to mention eq boost also costs amp power....

Just some degree of flexibility would be great. my thinking is get an amp with more power than my speakers can take, just dont crank it up all the way, that way i can still upgrade at a later stage, and also change the room dynamics a little, speakers little further out or closer in.

Al these amps mentioned minus the pma450 (i think) will have more than enough power that i think/hope would do that i just mentioned.

 

[MAB]

I value human opinions especially on this forum beyond ai for sure, but ai also takes quotes from people all over the web, so its very confusing when it says some amps have warmer sound to it compared to others, or better dynamic range, some amps are more "musical" oriented compared to home theatre. and others more neutral in their sound.

And then on the forum nothing is being said about the differences other than that an amp is an amp so to speak.

I actually restore and test vintage gear, and post the results here. I listen to it as well. I also have some fairly cutting edge active speakers of modern design, and modern amps, and modern digital signal processing. I recently tested a vintage Mitsubishi preamp, a vintage Yamaha receiver, and most recently a stack of Bryston gear.

Almost every piece of old gear has some degradation. In many cases it can be fixed with money, and sometimes persistence. I noted in both the Mitsubishi and the Yamaha reviews that the volume controls had left-right offsets, especially in the regions where most often listened to. It may be a factory defect in those old volume controls, but likely the resistive films are worn. As mentioned in the Yamaha review, I got another unit at the same time that had attempted a service repair/upgrade, that destroyed the power supply. Most of this old gear also has some evidence of noise leakage to the signal lines, often cold solder, bad contact in the relays, or degrading capacitors.

The only vintage gear I have tested to date that has no sign of degradation is the Bryston.

None of this, if bad enough to be audible, sounds good with any of those genres you talk about. Amps just don't 'pair' with genres, and have no sound unless broken or asked to drive a speaker with impedance too challenging for the amp, or driven to clipping. In the Yamaha review I specifically point out in the measurements the bogus urban legend about Yamaha Natural Sound components having rolled off bass, or some sort of lean sound.

I would get a modern amp with a warranty. If you want warm, or lean, or whatever descriptor, get a WiiM with PEQ and adjust the sound to your room and to your preference. Don't get me wrong, I love vintage gear, but if you think it is going to work properly without some fixing, and if you think once it is fixed it will impart some magical quality to certain songs, you are barking up the wrong tree!

I do hope this helps.

 

[kevinsonic]

Generally yes. Consider amplification that will let you apply Parmetric EQ like an amplifier from WiiM.

Never heard of this, i will go look it up, thanks... i was thinking more to get a good pc software eq, the amps listed above is the choice i'm stuck with.

 

[JSmith]

the marantz the seller says its been serviced

"Serviced" can often mean a quick wipe down with isopropyl alcohol and a test to see if it turns on.


JSmith

 

[kevinsonic]

I actually restore and test vintage gear, and post the results here. I listen to it as well. I also have some fairly cutting edge active speakers of modern design, and modern amps, and modern digital signal processing. I recently tested a vintage Mitsubishi preamp, a vintage Yamaha receiver, and most recently a stack of Bryston gear.

Almost every piece of old gear has some degradation. In many cases it can be fixed with money, and sometimes persistence. I noted in both the Mitsubishi and the Yamaha reviews that the volume controls had left-right offsets, especially in the regions where most often listened to. It may be a factory defect in those old volume controls, but likely the resistive films are worn. As mentioned in the Yamaha review, I got another unit at the same time that had attempted a service repair/upgrade, that destroyed the power supply. Most of this old gear also has some evidence of noise leakage to the signal lines, often cold solder, bad contact in the relays, or degrading capacitors.

The only vintage gear I have tested to date that has no sign of degradation is the Bryston.

None of this, if bad enough to be audible, sounds good with any of those genres you talk about. Amps just don't 'pair' with genres, and have no sound unless broken or asked to drive a speaker with impedance too challenging for the amp, or driven to clipping. In the Yamaha review I specifically point out in the measurements the bogus urban legend about Yamaha Natural Sound components having rolled off bass, or some sort of lean sound.

I would get a modern amp with a warranty. If you want warm, or lean, or whatever descriptor, get a WiiM with PEQ and adjust the sound to your room and to your preference. Don't get me wrong, I love vintage gear, but if you think it is going to work properly without some fixing, and if you think once it is fixed it will impart some magical quality to certain songs, you are barking up the wrong tree!

I do hope this helps.

wow...

in your opinion sir, Would a modern AVR... ie an amp made for home theatre be a better choice ? (compared to my list above) say from the year 2000 to 2012.

I always hear opinions mentioning AVR's are not pure music amplifiers, and they don't sound as good as pure music amplifiers. Ie a 5.0 or 7.2 system etc.... is made for home cinema and is optimized for home theatre not pure music listening.

so if i buy a harman kardon avr230 or a kenwood krf-v5090d or a yamaha rx-v596 which are all newer, would the sound better than aged amps listed above from the 90s.

or denon avr 1912 (460w) power consumption

 

[voodooless]

An AVR will give you bass management at the very least, and if you're in luck, room correction or EQ as well. It can also be an upgrade path to more speakers in the future. Sound quality-wise, I would not worry.

The Denon AVR does not have room correction.

 

[witwald]

The 3 amplifiers i can choose from below which will be best ?

• Sansui AU-D5.
• Denon PMA-450.
• Marantz PM-53.

If you must choose from the 3 above all in the same price class, which will you choose.

Speakers of 4 ohm 80 watt peak will be driven plus a 120w peak sub (but all speakers may or may not be upgraded in future)

If the Sansui AU-D5, Denon PMA-450, and Marantz PM-53 are all in good working order (but they are all very old devices), they are all essentially going to behave as the proverbial "straight wire with gain". That is, based on their general specifications and reasonably high damping factors, they will all transparently pass the input signal through to the loudspeakers. As none of these amplifiers will have a "sonic signature", they can be used with any genre of music and give excellent results. Of course, that assumes that they are used within their linear operating range and are not driven into clipping.

The Sansui AU-D5 has power output meters. It could be expected that these would provide some indication when the AU-D5's maximum power output levels are being approached. This will help keep the amplifier from clipping when music is being played more loudly.

On the other hand, modern, compact amplifiers such as the WiiM Amp and WiiM Amp Pro offer similar power levels into 8-ohm loads, but will likely be able to drive 4-ohm loudspeakers a little more easily. They are rated at 60W into 8 ohms, but double that with a capability of 120W into 4 ohms.

Alternatively, one could search for a newer 80–100W/channel into 8-ohms amplifier, thus retaining some of the look of vintage amplifiers.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Never heard of this, i will go look it up, thanks... i was thinking more to get a good pc software eq, the amps listed above is the choice i'm stuck with.

Yes, software can be another way to apply Parametric EQ. Select amplifiers from WiiM can apply bass management and room correction.

 

[kevinsonic]

Thank you both Not 1 Wiim used at my budget price for sale here..... i guess i might have to roll the dice on one of these amps, i just found out that the guy selling the au d5 accidentally shorted out the speaker wires and according to him it only needs two transistors to fix... i really like that amp and it almost never comes up for sale in my country so wondering if i should bite the bullet, get it and send it it to be fixed or just go with any of the other amps above ?

OR should i rather go with a Modern AVR like denon avr 1912 (460w) or one similar with room correction ?

 

[Chester]

Amps don't know what kind of music you are playing, and don't care. AI hallucinates ... approach with caution

ChatGPT gave me some really confident advice on how I set up my AHB2, then finished by saying make sure the volume knob is at least 6 O’ clock.

 

[Eleo]

You cannot use AI this way. Chatgpt is not an oracle. Try instead to ask "what amp, according to objective measurements...." and let's see what he answers this time

 

[JeremyFife]

But then they do decide how to convey the sounds yes and not all does it the same or am i completely off. Or if what you say is true which is in a sense i believe is most definately so, with that opinion i can take any amp that produces enough power to drive my speakers and just EQ them to sound like any other amp within its class ?

Amps can't "decide" how to convey sound. They are designed to take an input and produce a larger output: and the best ones just do that, within their designed frequency range. Feed them with too large a voltage, or ask them to drive too difficult a load (low impedance speakers, high current demands) and you go outside their design parameters and they start sounding off, but that's a different thing.

Actually, I wanted to ask about something you said - that you had to choose one of the three amps you first listed? Is that the case or do you have other options?
Those Amps all look fine, but personally I'd want something under warranty since I don't do DIY and there are no good service options near me.

 

[DanielT]

best reply so far thanks.

My use for it is Pure music listening with two 4 ohm 80 watt speakers (two 8 inch woofers (2.5 way) per tower) Nothing High end, but would like them to sound the best they can within the budget i have. And perhaps the ability to upgrade the speakers so the amp can handle it but not absolutely mandotary.

It's the power they can handle. The sensitivity of the speaker is how much sound you get out of the watts you put into the speaker.
If you look at the technical specifications of speakers, it is usually always stated: Sensitivity.

Speakers with built-in amplifiers, so-called active or powered speakers, instead state how loud you can play with them: SPL.

 

[MAB]

wow...

in your opinion sir, Would a modern AVR... ie an amp made for home theatre be a better choice ? (compared to my list above) say from the year 2000 to 2012.

I always hear opinions mentioning AVR's are not pure music amplifiers, and they don't sound as good as pure music amplifiers. Ie a 5.0 or 7.2 system etc.... is made for home cinema and is optimized for home theatre not pure music listening.

so if i buy a harman kardon avr230 or a kenwood krf-v5090d or a yamaha rx-v596 which are all newer, would the sound better than aged amps listed above from the 90s.

or denon avr 1912 (460w) power consumption

In general, many AVR have excellent performance. Some have great DSP / Equalization features, even including room correction with a measurement microphone. Opinions about 'not pure music' are just not true if the starting point is the AVR with all of the settings flat, and it is working, not garbage, level-matched...

I can't comment on all of those individual amps you listed except to say if they are working properly, they will sound the same, unless you do something wacky like hook up an Infinity Kappa 9 or some other impossible-to-drive speaker.

 

[DanielT]

I really was putting this one up for strong consideration, i have read nothing bad about these amps online. All info about them seems to be about people getting excited about this amp.

IF the Denon PMA-450 or Marantz PM-53 you are considering works without any noise, they should last a few more (or many) years. But you can't be sure. Those thirty-year-old, mid-90s amplifiers with that look are usually the least sought after on the market. It's about their looks, not their performance or functions.

People pay more if the amplifiers/receivers are and look older than those from the 1990s. It may seem a bit crazy, but there is a craze for older ones in many countries. This means that around thirty-year-old can usually be obtained for almost no money at all. Around $50 or so.For such a low price; buy, hope for the best and be happy.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Thank you both Not 1 Wiim used at my budget price for sale here..... i guess i might have to roll the dice on one of these amps, i just found out that the guy selling the au d5 accidentally shorted out the speaker wires and according to him it only needs two transistors to fix... i really like that amp and it almost never comes up for sale in my country so wondering if i should bite the bullet, get it and send it it to be fixed or just go with any of the other amps above ?

OR should i rather go with a Modern AVR like denon avr 1912 (460w) or one similar with room correction ?

Consider a modern Denon or Marantz AVR that is compatible with the ($20) Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (Google Play or App Store). The 'About this app' detail at each store lists which Denon or Marantz AVR's are compatible - I do not see the Denon '1912' listed as being compatible.

Amir reviewed the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app and recommends it:

'Audyssey Room EQ Review'

Apr 21, 2020

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon Android App that for $20 lets you customize some critical aspects of it as you will see later.

My setup is my main music system which I would show you a picture of but it got so torn up with cables going everywhere to wire up the AVR which I am ashamed to show you. So see this picture from...

• amirm
• Replies: 1,056
• Forum: Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions

• 

 

[DanielT]

In general, many AVR have excellent performance. Some have great DSP / Equalization features, even including room correction with a measurement microphone. Opinions about 'not pure music' are just not true if the starting point is the AVR with all of the settings flat, and it is working, not garbage, level-matched...

I can't comment on all of those individual amps you listed except to say if they are working properly, they will sound the same, unless you do something wacky like hook up an Infinity Kappa 9 or some other impossible-to-drive speaker.

Plus, considering that TS has a tight budget, the fact that you can usually find not-too-old AVRs at a very low price is an advantage.
In any case, I suspect that the pricing of used AVRs is the same in South Africa as it is in many other countries.

 

[witwald]

... i just found out that the guy selling the au d5 accidentally shorted out the speaker wires and according to him it only needs two transistors to fix... i really like that amp and it almost never comes up for sale in my country so wondering if i should bite the bullet, get it and send it it to be fixed or just go with any of the other amps above ?

It may be difficult to find the appropriate transistors to replace the broken ones. It also sounds like major work, and thus a repair could end up being expensive, especially if some other components were adversely affected and needed replacing. At this stage, it would seem prudent to look for a different amplifier.

OR should I rather go with a Modern AVR like Denon AVR-1912 (460w) or one similar with room correction ?

The AVR-1912 has 90W/channel into 8ohms (20Hz – 20kHz, THD 0.08 %), and should be able to meet that specification when driving two channels in a stereo configuration. It seems like a reasonable unit, with the benefits of bass management for a subwoofer.

 

[DanielT]

....., i just found out that the guy selling the au d5 accidentally shorted out the speaker wires and according to him it only needs two transistors to fix...

I missed you writing that. What @witwald says about that au d5 is correct.

Forget about that au d5. You have a tight budget and have no knowledge, if I understand correctly, to troubleshoot and repair such an amplifier yourself. To hand it in to a professional repairman who charges by the hour, .. forget about that too.That in itself can cost a lot.

Edit:
How often do used amplifiers that are several decades old pop up on the market in South Africa?

@kevinsonic do you have a link to a site you look at used amplifiers on? Feel free to link to it. I'm a little curious about what's on your used Hifi market.