Which clock ?

[Gidorra]

Hi guys, and one girl
I am trying to find the right, ideally cheap streamer for a stand-alone DAC. It is said that if I take a streamer without USB-out, then my expensive DAC will receive the potentially worse clocking from the streamer, and basically not re-clock it DAC-internally. Is that even true?
So my initial plan was to get the cheapest Wiim Pro, just for streaming, and connect it to an Audiolab D9 DAC. But in light of the above, and since the Wiim Pro does not have USB, and only the most expensive Wiim Ultra actually has USB, now I am thinking that I basically have to take the plunge here, simply for the sake of USB. The Ultra also has the much better ES9038M2Q chip. - But before I start spending any money, I wanted to get clarity as to where my music really gets clocked, i.e. is that USB-narrative correct? Obviously, I want the DAC to clock it. There is even the suggestion to get an SMSL PO 100 for only 60 bucks, as it supposedly has a better clock than the Wiim Ultra, and put that between streamer and DAC, again via USB, to make use of its claimed superior clock. Is that all nonsene, all good advice ?

 

[Morla]

If I may? I really think that audiolab d9 is a waste of money. There is plenty of fine (measured) gear on this sitefor much less than what.. 1300€? Also you only have one signal so nothing to worry about clock? (Just my opinion)

 

[Vincent Kars]

basically not re-clock it DAC-internally. Is that even true?

Probably not.
In the past a DAC was sensitive to input jitter so the quality of the clock of the sender was considered important.
Then they invented the PLL, kind of electronic equivalent of the flywheel to reduce the impact of input jitter.
Today any decent DAC uses ASRC (Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion). This decouples the clock of the DAC from clock of the source. This makes the protocol (S/PDIF or async USB) irrelevant.

SMSL PO 100 for only 60 bucks, as it supposedly has a better clock than the Wiim Ultra

You mean use the USB out of the WiiM to convert it to S/PDIF

 

[Gidorra]

Yes you may I was just inspired by a buddy who is happy as a clam with his D7, but the reality is, that I do not have the opportunity to listen to any of them, sitting on my village, and am basically a sheep who follows what the people on the internet say, and then I order something...I thought they made an effort with the D9, like power supply etc

 

[RandomEar]

There's no reason at all to worry about clock accuracy in modern DACs. The engineers behind the hardware and protocols being used did all the hard work for you. Just choose your streamer, connect your devices and enjoy the music.

The only situation in which you may run into significant amounts of jitter today is an "ols school" optical connection (S/PDIF) from a TV to an external DAC, because for some reason, the optical outputs of most modern TVs suck. In those cases, even DPLL can sometimes fail, resulting in dropouts.

 

[Gidorra]

Probably not.
In the past a DAC was sensitive to input jitter so the quality of the clock of the sender was considered important.
Then they invented the PLL, kind of electronic equivalent of the flywheel to reduce the impact of input jitter.
Today any decent DAC uses ASRC (Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion). This decouples the clock of the DAC from clock of the source. This makes the protocol (S/PDIF or async USB) irrelevant.


You mean use the USB out of the WiiM to convert it to S/PDIF

Yes, Cheapaudioman on Youtube is peddling that in a video, relying on the "experts", and actually this seems to have become really popular, because I read Amazon Wiim Ultra reviews, where people claim to have boosted their Wiim like that

 

[voodooless]

Today any decent DAC uses ASRC (Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion).

Except almost none do. Only ESS has an on-chip implementation on some of the models (though all the latest higher-end models). Otherwise ASRC is mostly used in pro audio equipment, very rarely in consumer DACs. In any case. You don’t need an ASRC to get excellent performance.

In general: don’t worry about clocks. They have been good enough for decades.

 

[DVDdoug]

Don't worry about the clock.

Some "cheap consumer soundcards" have enough clock error that the pitch and tempo are off, and that sometimes causes trouble for musicians but it's rarely noticeable to listeners. (BTW - It's not a "jitter" issue, it's a timing issue.)

Pros use super-accurate master clocks (sometimes atomic clocks) and interfaces that accept master clock inputs. That allows multiple devices to be synchronized to the exact sample and it keeps audio & video from various different sources in sync over the length of a concert or movie, etc.

In fact, don't worry about the digital side (or DAC) at all when it comes to sound quality, unless you have some specific weird problem.

 

[NTK]

Welcome to ASR!

Modern DAC chips have internal circuitry for jitter reduction (the reason for reclocking). For example, here is the block diagram of the ESS ES9038PRO used in the D9. Similar circuitry (ASRC) is also present for the lower grade ESS ones.

 

[Gidorra]

Welcome to ASR!

Modern DAC chips have internal circuitry for jitter reduction (the reason for reclocking). For example, here is the block diagram of the ESS ES9038PRO used in the D9. Similar circuitry (ASRC) is also present for the lower grade ESS ones.

View attachment 498620
View attachment 498621

Funny you should say that. I just looked up the spec sheets for the ES9028M2Q in the Audiolab D7 and the ES9038PRO in the D9 and it says for both: