Which bookshelf crossover (non-DSP) provides highest performance under $2,500? Acoustic Energy AE1?

[mel]

From a computer science standpoint, I feel the Genelec surround sound capabilities are the most interesting. I don't own a TV or play video games. I find the networking architecture very interesting, from a software standpoint. I think understanding surround sound applications might provide greatest insight how to exploit Genelec speakers for music. The specific speakers are irrelevant for this purpose. The DSP software and networking functionality is key.

After reading the owner's manual, this isn't what I quite hoped for. Surround sound puts you at the center of a circle. I wanted to change the room to an ellipse shape by putting curved foam in room corners.

• But as you increase the number of playback channels, your speakers need to be
  • physically compact and
  • deliver totally uncoloured response both
    • on and off axis, to ensure that complex immersive soundscapes
  • retain both
    • detail and
    • precision.

Mounting considerations
Align the loudspeakers correctly
Always place the loudspeakers so that they are aimed towards the listening position. Vertical placement is preferable, as it minimizes acoustical cancellation problems between the drivers around the crossover frequency.
Maintain symmetry
Check that the loudspeakers are placed symmetrically and at an equal distance from the listening position. If possible, place the system so that the listening position is on the centerline of the room but not exactly at the center of the room. Place the loudspeakers are at an equal distance from the centerline and also at an equal distance from the listening position.
Minimize reflections
8 English
Acoustic reflections from objects close to the loudspeakers like desks, cabinets, computer monitors etc. can cause unwanted blurring of the sound image and also cause frequency response problems. These can be minimized by placing the loudspeaker clear of any hard surfaces.
Minimum clearances
Sufficient cooling for the amplifier and functioning of the reflex port must be ensured if the loudspeaker is installed in a restricted space such as a cabinet or integrated into a wall structure. The surroundings of the loudspeaker must always be open to the listening room with a minimum clearance of 5 centimeters (2”) behind, above and on both sides of the loudspeaker. The space adjacent to the amplifier must either be ventilated or sufficiently large to dissipate heat so that the ambient temperature does not rise above 35 degrees Celsius (95°F).

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...83ac13a96f/g_one_b_operating_manual_engfi.pdf

 

[mel]

From a computer science standpoint, I feel the Genelec surround sound capabilities are the most interesting. I don't own a TV or play video games. I find the networking architecture very interesting, from a software standpoint. I think understanding surround sound applications might provide greatest insight how to exploit Genelec speakers for music. The specific speakers are irrelevant for this purpose. The DSP software and networking functionality is key.

After reading the owner's manual, this isn't what I quite hoped for. Surround sound puts you at the center of a circle. I wanted to change the room to an ellipse shape by putting curved foam in room corners.

I did learn where to position new speakers from the surround sound circle. The owners manual recommends the circle be positioned in the center of the room. A circle implies the maximum distance in a rectangular space is the constrained to the smallest dimension. I am constrained to 5m, or a 2.5m radius. Placing an imaginary yurt inside you room is a vivid way to visualize the constraint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurt

For my purposes, speakers only need to be powerful enough for a 2.5m distance. The best location is opposite the speakers on my desk. I only need to move my chair a short distance from my desk to "magnify" the sound with higher quality speakers. This also implies the maximum distance of my listening triangle is 2.5m.

My listening is more near-field than mid-field, from a surround sound circle perspective. I only effectively gain 1m listening distance with new speakers.

 

[mel]

From a computer science standpoint, I feel the Genelec surround sound capabilities are the most interesting. I don't own a TV or play video games. I find the networking architecture very interesting, from a software standpoint. I think understanding surround sound applications might provide greatest insight how to exploit Genelec speakers for music. The specific speakers are irrelevant for this purpose. The DSP software and networking functionality is key.

After reading the owner's manual, this isn't what I quite hoped for. Surround sound puts you at the center of a circle. I wanted to change the room to an ellipse shape by putting curved foam in room corners.

I held season tickets at the San Francisco Symphony for years, when MTT was conducting. MTT is a world leader in classical recording. I can immediately recognize the Davies Symphony Hall sound signature on any recording. MTT records in:

• 5.1 surround-capable SACD
• 24-bit
• DSD Studio Master digital formats

I want to design my system with these requirements and my limitations in mind.

https://www.sfsymphony.org/About-SF...es/SFS-Media-MTT-Album-Wins-2021-Grammy-Award


SFS Media is the San Francisco Symphony’s in-house media production company and label, launched in 2001. SFS Media records and releases audio and visual material which reflects the Orchestra’s

• commitment to the highest recording and production standards, showcasing music by maverick American composers as well as core classical masterworks.
• Recorded live in concert and engineered at Davies Symphony Hall,
• the audio recordings are released in 5.1 surround-capable SACD, in high quality
  • 24-bit and
  • DSD Studio Master digital formats, and on
  • streaming platforms via all major retailers. In addition to live concert recordings, SFS Media produces and releases documentary and live performance videos, including the San Francisco Symphony’s
• national public television series and multimedia project Keeping Score, designed to make classical music more accessible to people of all ages and musical backgrounds.
• Keeping Score is available on DVD and Blu-ray, can be accessed online at
  • keepingscore.org, and was made available for unlimited free streaming on the
• Symphony’s YouTube channel in 2020. Other video recordings of the San Francisco Symphony available from
• SFS Media include
  • A Celebration of Leonard Bernstein: Opening Night at Carnegie Hall 2008 and
  • San Francisco Symphony at 100, the centennial season’s Opening Gala live concert video paired with a documentary about the Symphony’s history, which won a
  • Northern California Emmy Award for “Historical/Cultural Program or Special” in 2012.
  • Its first digital program with Music Director Esa-Pekka Salonen, Throughline, is available for free streaming at www.sfsymphony.org/throughline.

All SFS Media recordings and videos are available online at

• https://www.warnerclassics.com/artist/san-francisco-symphony/releases and at major retailers nationwide, with all physical recordings also available from the Symphony Store in Davies Symphony Hall. Global distribution of all SFS Media products is managed by
• Warner Classics Label Services.

• From the Diary of Anne Frank & Meditations on Rilke is available in
  • 5.1 surround-capable SACD and through digital outlets worldwide, including iTunes, Amazon, AppleMusic Spotify, Primephonic, HDTracks and IDAGIO.

In my case, the surround sound circle radius is about 6 feet or 2m.

 

[mel]

I held season tickets at the San Francisco Symphony for years, when MTT was conducting. MTT is a world leader in classical recording. I can immediately recognize the Davies Symphony Hall sound signature on any recording. MTT records in:

• 5.1 surround-capable SACD
• 24-bit
• DSD Studio Master digital formats

I want to design my system with these requirements and my limitations in mind.



In my case, the surround sound circle is radius is about 6 feet or 2m.

I will most likely move my desktop speakers to my bedroom. I will most likely replace my desktop with a GLM-based, 5.1 speakers.

• I probably would not buy the center speaker.
  • A 4.1 system is more accurate, but awkward.
• My desktop speakers will be the LS and RS surround speakers (smallest).
  • The LS and RS would butt up against a wall.

My buying decision immediately simplified with the surround sound constraint.

• GLM Kit - key component because all decisions are based on cloud connection.
• The Ones 8341a would be my first purchase. ($3,000)
  • No subwoofer
    • Frequency Response - 38 Hz - 37 kHz (-6dB)
  • Front speakers
• The SAM 8320a would be the second purchase.
  • Side and desktop speakers
  • subwoofer

• https://www.genelec.com/sam-studio-monitors-subwoofers
  • By working closely with our GLM calibration software, our
  • Smart Active Monitors and Subwoofers will
  • adapt to your room's acoustics to provide optimised performance - even in challenging spaces.
• https://www.genelec.com/theones - Front speakers
• • https://www.genelec.com/8341a
    • Frequency Response - 38 Hz - 37 kHz (-6dB)
  • We are the world’s most compact three-way studio monitors, and
  • our extraordinary imaging,
  • extended frequency response,
  • controlled directivity and
  • fatigue-free listening will help you work faster and make more informed, consistent decisions - even on long sessions. And thanks to the ever-evolving
    GLM setup application, we can adapt to even the most challenging of environments.
• https://www.genelec.com/smart-active-2-way-studio-monitors - Side and desktop speakers
  • https://www.genelec.com/8320a - 2 driver configuration
    • Already 9" tall.
      • I don't want any bigger desktop speakers.
  • Genelec Smart Active 2-Ways work closely with our
  • GLM calibration software to create a reference monitoring system that is
    • optimised for your acoustic environment.
    • At last, you’ll produce mixes that translate consistently to other rooms and systems.
• https://www.genelec.com/1032c

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/genelec-ones

• Genelec state that the minimum listening distance for the 8351As is 0.4m,
  • and to put that in context, the minimum listening distance for the equivalent-sized 8050 two-way monitor is 0.7m — nearly twice as far!
• The ability to work in the ultra-nearfield can be hugely advantageous when the
  • listening room’s acoustics are sub-optimal.
  • Nearfield listening inherently reduces the significance of room reflections, and
  • the closer you can get to the monitors, the less the room’s acoustics matter!

It is generally recognised that a higher level of performance can be obtained by employing a three-way architecture, which allows the

• bandwidth handled by each driver to be smaller. This approach brings a variety of benefits, including
• better matching of dispersion angles between drivers through the crossover regions,
• lower intermodulation distortion and
• better power handling.
• Genelec have long employed this approach very successfully in their larger monitors, but the extra cost, complexity and parts count makes it difficult to build a compact three-way monitor.

This most ingenious and innovative arrangement establishes the highly desirable point-source principle across the entire audio spectrum in a really elegant way, and by employing the whole of the front baffle as a waveguide for the mid-range/tweeter, the directivity is controlled to a much lower frequency than is possible in conventional designs, where much of the baffle is occupied by a large bass driver. The 8351A really is a marvel of advanced engineering and imaginative packaging and, while the visual aesthetic takes some getting used to, the sound quality is quite remarkable.

The technology, connectivity and setup processes are more or less identical for both new monitors, but naturally they differ a little in their specifications.

• The larger 8341A incorporates a very generous 250W amplifier for the bass drivers, and provides
• 150W each for the mid-range and tweeter,
• crossing over at 500Hz and 3kHz.
• This allows the system to achieve a bass extension down to 38Hz (-6dB) and a maximum SPL of 110dB. A good indication of the way this monitor technology has been optimised is that, despite its smaller size, the
• 8341A gives very little away to its larger sibling, which manages only 1dB more SPL and a 32Hz bass extension.
• Rear-panel connectivity provides separate XLRs for analogue and digital input signals, with a digital loop-through output on another XLR allowing an AES3 source to be passed on to a second monitor, and two RJ45 control network ports.

Input selection is automatic, with the AES3 signal having priority, but the monitors can also be configured for a specific input format using the GLM control software, if preferred. Sample rates of 32-192 kHz are supported, at 16- or 24-bit word lengths. The appropriate AES3 channel can be selected either using DIP switches on the rear of the monitor, or the GLM software. The nominal input sensitivity is the same for both the 8341 and 8331 monitors: 100dB SPL at one metre is achieved with an analogue input of -6dBu or a digital input of -30dBFS. However, a rear-panel trimmer and a pair of DIP switches accommodate any input level from +36dBu to -6dBu (for 100dB SPL at one metre).

As with other GLM/SAM monitors, all of the clever driver equalisation and protection, as well as the overall room equalisation, is performed in the digital domain using floating-point arithmetic at 64-bit resolution. The DSP processing affords the GLM software with the capability of allocating and configuring up to 16 parametric filters and two HF and LF shelving filters to correct in-room response anomalies. Interestingly, all of the equalisation is configured using linear-phase filters so that the electrical input waveform translates as closely as possible to the generated acoustic wavefronts, and the processing latency is both very short (less than 4ms) and constant at all frequencies above 100Hz (it increases below that, in common with most loudspeaker designs).

Of course, one potential problem when sitting so close to the monitors is that amplifier self-noise can become audible as a constant background hiss, but I couldn’t hear any hiss at all from the 8331As even at this close position, and the specifications claim an A-weighted self-noise at 1m of 0dB SPL! The larger and far more powerful 8341A is specified with a self-noise of less than 3dB SPL A-weighted, which is still inaudible at all practical listening distances.

Overall, I found the 8341A and 8331A to be outstanding reference monitors, and I am completely bowled over that this level of sound quality can now be achieved from such compact boxes. Judged by their bass responses alone you’d be forgiven for thinking these were much, much larger than they actually are, and yet their stereo imaging has the precision normally associated with smaller designs. They also deliver the transparency and neutrality expected of a really good three-way monitor speaker, but their compact form allows them to be used in ultra-nearfield situations and in either orientation without compromising their tonal accuracy. In a good room, the GLM equalisation feature adds a welcome uniformity to the on-axis frequency response, while in a bad room, the ability to work very close allows most of the room effects to be beneficially negated.

 

[mel]

Conclusion​

I very much hope this thread has reached its natural end; I fear not. The best way to read this thread is from the end and progress towards the beginning, until the posts lose value or relevance.

 

[mel]

Conclusion​

I very much hope this thread has reached its natural end; I fear not. The best way to read this thread is from the end and progress towards the beginning, until the posts lose value or relevance.

I actually spoke with Guitar Center for 30 minutes. Apparently, I need all speakers for a 5.1 recording, like the SFS MTT recording mentioned in a previous post.

• Omitting the center speaker is essentially omitting an entire channel.
• A subwoofer seems necessary for 38Hz.
  • I often see the 25 and 40 Hz bands reach high levels on the RME DAC.

My local Guitar Center doesn't have any Genelec speakers for demo. The One series is a special order item for them.

 

[mel]

I found these 5.1 surround packages:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1459410-REG/genelec_8330_lse_surround_sam_kit.html
Genelec 8330.LSE Surround SAM Kit - Five 8330APMs, One 7360A Subwoofer & GLM V2.0 Kit with Volume Control $7,400

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1459408-REG/genelec_8320_lse_surround_sam.html
Genelec 8320.LSE Surround SAM - Five 8320APMs, One 7350A Subwoofer, GLM 2.0 Kit, and Volume Control $4,800

 

[mel]

Continuing this discussion as GLM software brings context to Genelec hardware.

Tidal has very little "immersive" content. A few curated lists are recorded as Dolby Atmos. Tidal seems to be headed with immersive 5.1 content encoded as Dolby Atmos. To avoid buying the wrong Genelec hardware, understanding GLM software is necessary.

https://www.genelec.com/-/download-our-new-immersive-solutions-guide

various available formats including Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS:X, 22.2 and others.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...45/Genelec_Immersive_Solutions_Guide_2021.pdf

The ability to position sounds spherically with precision is a key benefit of immersive audio . Another is the possibility to influence the sense of space in human listeners . For the latter, the frequency range between 50 and 200 Hz - which constitutes the lowest two octaves of the interaural time difference (ITD) range - plays an essential role; but is often compromised by the reproduction system .

In standard terms, this means going from an ITU-R BS .775 monitoring configuration to ITU-R BS .2159 .
In immersive, loudspeakers are located around the listener at ear level, but crucially also positioned above or below the listener, so called “layers” . Layers may or may not be reflected in format names, so the same setup could be labelled, for example, 11 .1 or 7 .1 .4 depending on manufacturer or country . In either case that system would have 11 discrete main channels and one LFE channel .

A fine immersive experimental system is at the heart of any subjective test and data gathering . In this respect, Genelec point source monitors, known as “The Ones”, are in their own category entirely . By avoiding
the colouration of direct sound and reflections, which is not possible
with a conventional monitor design, the most serious obstacle in immersive research is avoided . Not surprisingly, there has been a surge in microphone production and immersive studies based on The Ones .

For research where the requirement for ideal directivity in both planes is less pronounced, the range of Genelec models to choose from is wider . While a selection of these models appears within this brochure, please visit www .genelec .com for the full range, and notice how the benefits of GLM in-situ adjustments are available to all Genelec SAM monitors and subwoofers .

Monitor Control
In daily operation, GLM doubles as a comprehensive Mac or PC-based monitor controller that immediately scales with your setup requirements; for instance if changing from stereo to 5 .1, 7 .1 .4, 22 .2, 64 channels or higher .
GLM enables you to calibrate your listening level to various loudness standards, and invoke solo and mutes . You can switch between formats, monitoring systems and primary listening positions, and move entire systems in time to retain sync with picture . The list goes on, and in each case your integrated GLM monitor controller won’t burden Pro Tools or any other immersive playback device .

The surround sound listening circle appears in a previous post. My room is constrained by width. The width of my room is 12' or 4m, or less than a 2m radius. In my case, the 8330a or 8320a is probably the best model.

Place the surround sound circle in the center of your room. Visualize a yurt inside your room for a vivid depiction.

 

[mononoaware]

I very much hope this thread has reached its natural end; I fear not.

Here are some closing thoughts regarding your last few posts.

Classical recordings, especially good ones will have plenty of dynamic range and will definitely test the available "headroom" (Max SPL) of your chosen Studio monitors + Active subwoofer.
Crescendo's will test the monitors, while the sub-bass content such as rolling gong/bass drums will test the subwoofer's headroom.
Therefore even at your low-SPL (described as conversation level) I would recommend the larger package with the 5x 8330A + 7360A + GLM Kit (100w 5-inch monitors + 300w 10" Subwoofer) for those peaks/bursts of SPL energy.
Not only will the higher Max SPL translate as typical realism of an Orchestra, operating the monitors be in their "comfort zone" will be ideal for optimal performance. Also Studio monitors are typically SPL limited due to being designed for near-field, therefore the a model up is recommended to acquire all the headroom you can get.
In the case of 8320 vs 8330 it is only +4dB extra headroom, but I am sure it will be more than that in 5.1 arrangement + active subwoofer + GLM kit calibration.
8330A is "± 1.5 dB (58 Hz - 20 kHz)" but you will likely be crossing them over somewhere between 80-100hz to the 7360A.

You have correctly listed the GLM kits (hub + microphone) with GLM compatible monitors (ethernet connection).
The Kit with identical 5 monitors is recommended, due to minor character differences in sound you usually do not want to mix and match like you mentioned above (8341A + 8320A).
All recommended "immersive systems" on Genelec Official use matching monitor models.
Also the 8341A and 8320A differences in power output/sensitivity and low-frequency response may create a challenge and less smooth experience with GLM setup.

If you have a look at page 9 of the "Immersive Solutions Guide" (Genelec Official).
You will see that the 8330A has just that tiny amount of "direct sound dominance" distance advantage over the 8320A (with the compromise of increased minimum near-field distance).
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn.../Genelec_Immersive_Solutions_Guide_-_2021.pdf
Edit: You already found this, but I think the 2nd image (the same from "Immersive Solutions Guide") is more relevant for surround application (distance to centre point is limited by surrounding speakers).

Also if you have a look under "Audio Solutions" on Genelec Official, the current closest system is the 11x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination (7.1.4).
https://www.genelec.com/film-drama-post/8340-7370-immersive-system
(7.1.4 Atmos is the new version of 5.1 surround)

So for 5.1 in Professional environment they will likely recommend 5x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination, so the 5x 8330A + 1x 7360A + GLM kit you linked would be a step down in size from that.

Regarding different surround setups, I am sure GLM is very flexible and will accommodate whichever source material you input (5.1 SACD) and process accordingly.

Place the surround sound circle in the center of your room. Visualize a yurt inside your room for a vivid depiction.

You say you like to be able to move around, you are a "butterfly", in which case you will want more distance between monitors (bigger yurt) for greater flexiblity.
(Therefore I think 8330A is the better recommendation with its greater distance direct sound dominance)
Placing the monitors close to the walls can have its own advantages.
Here is a quick video explaining some basics:

In terms of Rear-ported Bass-reflex design, since port-tuning frequency is most-commonly an omni-directional low-frequency the only minor benefit/difference of front-ported design is the distance from the front to the rear of the speaker (speaker depth).

 

[mel]

Here are some closing thoughts regarding your last few posts.

Classical recordings, especially good ones will have plenty of dynamic range and will definitely test the available "headroom" (Max SPL) of your chosen Studio monitors + Active subwoofer.
Crescendo's will test the monitors, while the sub-bass content such as rolling gong/bass drums will test the subwoofer's headroom.
Therefore even at your low-SPL (described as conversation level) I would recommend the larger package with the 5x 8330A + 7360A + GLM Kit (100w 5-inch monitors + 300w 10" Subwoofer) for those peaks/bursts of SPL energy.
Not only will the higher Max SPL translate as typical realism of an Orchestra, operating the monitors be in their "comfort zone" will be ideal for optimal performance. Also Studio monitors are typically SPL limited due to being designed for near-field, therefore the a model up is recommended to acquire all the headroom you can get.
In the case of 8320 vs 8330 it is only +4dB extra headroom, but I am sure it will be more than that in 5.1 arrangement + active subwoofer + GLM kit calibration.
8330A is "± 1.5 dB (58 Hz - 20 kHz)" but you will likely be crossing them over somewhere between 80-100hz to the 7360A.

You have correctly listed the GLM kits (hub + microphone) with GLM compatible monitors (ethernet connection).
The Kit with identical 5 monitors is recommended, due to minor character differences in sound you usually do not want to mix and match like you mentioned above (8341A + 8320A).
All recommended "immersive systems" on Genelec Official use matching monitor models.
Also the 8341A and 8320A differences in power output/sensitivity and low-frequency response may create a challenge and less smooth experience with GLM setup.

If you have a look at page 9 of the "Immersive Solutions Guide" (Genelec Official).
You will see that the 8330A has just that tiny amount of "direct sound dominance" distance advantage over the 8320A (with the compromise of increased minimum near-field distance).
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn.../Genelec_Immersive_Solutions_Guide_-_2021.pdf
Edit: You already found this, but I think the 2nd image (the same from "Immersive Solutions Guide") is more relevant for surround application (distance to centre point is limited by surrounding speakers).

Also if you have a look under "Audio Solutions" on Genelec Official, the current closest system is the 11x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination (7.1.4).
https://www.genelec.com/film-drama-post/8340-7370-immersive-system
(7.1.4 Atmos is the new version of 5.1 surround)

So for 5.1 in Professional environment they will likely recommend 5x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination, so the 5x 8330A + 1x 7360A + GLM kit you linked would be a step down in size from that.

Regarding different surround setups, I am sure GLM is very flexible and will accommodate whichever source material you input (5.1 SACD) and process accordingly.



You say you like to be able to move around, you are a "butterfly", in which case you will want more distance between monitors (bigger yurt) for greater flexiblity.
(Therefore I think 8330A is the better recommendation with its greater distance direct sound dominance)
Placing the monitors close to the walls can have its own advantages.
Here is a quick video explaining some basics:

In terms of Rear-ported Bass-reflex design, since port-tuning frequency is most-commonly an omni-directional low-frequency the only minor benefit/difference of front-ported design is the distance from the front to the rear of the speaker (speaker depth).

Great recommendations! You really know your audio.

My AV receiver would probably become my Genelec hub. I attended the U2 360 tour. I would love to play the Blu-ray Disc in 5.1, because it is recorded in Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1.

• For this to work, I need to be sure that Tidal properly recognizing my AV receiver to pass 5.1 content.
  • I remember Tidal acting screwy, but I forgot the details.
  • I fear Tidal will send 2.1 content.

A post along the same lines.

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...y-dts-and-gaming-both-using-PC-as-a-platform-

How to setup 5.1 or 5.2 Genelec SAM-system for immersive movie playback (dolby/dts) and gaming both using PC as a platform?

If you want to use the PC or gaming console as a sound source, you would have to use the HDMI output and run this into an AV receiver that offers analog Pre-Outputs. There you can connect the Genelec speakers (can be RCA or XLR).

 

[mel]

Here are some closing thoughts regarding your last few posts.

Classical recordings, especially good ones will have plenty of dynamic range and will definitely test the available "headroom" (Max SPL) of your chosen Studio monitors + Active subwoofer.
Crescendo's will test the monitors, while the sub-bass content such as rolling gong/bass drums will test the subwoofer's headroom.
Therefore even at your low-SPL (described as conversation level) I would recommend the larger package with the 5x 8330A + 7360A + GLM Kit (100w 5-inch monitors + 300w 10" Subwoofer) for those peaks/bursts of SPL energy.
Not only will the higher Max SPL translate as typical realism of an Orchestra, operating the monitors be in their "comfort zone" will be ideal for optimal performance. Also Studio monitors are typically SPL limited due to being designed for near-field, therefore the a model up is recommended to acquire all the headroom you can get.
In the case of 8320 vs 8330 it is only +4dB extra headroom, but I am sure it will be more than that in 5.1 arrangement + active subwoofer + GLM kit calibration.
8330A is "± 1.5 dB (58 Hz - 20 kHz)" but you will likely be crossing them over somewhere between 80-100hz to the 7360A.

You have correctly listed the GLM kits (hub + microphone) with GLM compatible monitors (ethernet connection).
The Kit with identical 5 monitors is recommended, due to minor character differences in sound you usually do not want to mix and match like you mentioned above (8341A + 8320A).
All recommended "immersive systems" on Genelec Official use matching monitor models.
Also the 8341A and 8320A differences in power output/sensitivity and low-frequency response may create a challenge and less smooth experience with GLM setup.

If you have a look at page 9 of the "Immersive Solutions Guide" (Genelec Official).
You will see that the 8330A has just that tiny amount of "direct sound dominance" distance advantage over the 8320A (with the compromise of increased minimum near-field distance).
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn.../Genelec_Immersive_Solutions_Guide_-_2021.pdf
Edit: You already found this, but I think the 2nd image (the same from "Immersive Solutions Guide") is more relevant for surround application (distance to centre point is limited by surrounding speakers).

Also if you have a look under "Audio Solutions" on Genelec Official, the current closest system is the 11x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination (7.1.4).
https://www.genelec.com/film-drama-post/8340-7370-immersive-system
(7.1.4 Atmos is the new version of 5.1 surround)

So for 5.1 in Professional environment they will likely recommend 5x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination, so the 5x 8330A + 1x 7360A + GLM kit you linked would be a step down in size from that.

Regarding different surround setups, I am sure GLM is very flexible and will accommodate whichever source material you input (5.1 SACD) and process accordingly.



You say you like to be able to move around, you are a "butterfly", in which case you will want more distance between monitors (bigger yurt) for greater flexiblity.
(Therefore I think 8330A is the better recommendation with its greater distance direct sound dominance)
Placing the monitors close to the walls can have its own advantages.
Here is a quick video explaining some basics:

In terms of Rear-ported Bass-reflex design, since port-tuning frequency is most-commonly an omni-directional low-frequency the only minor benefit/difference of front-ported design is the distance from the front to the rear of the speaker (speaker depth).

I am probably looking at:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1459410-REG/genelec_8330_lse_surround_sam_kit.html
Genelec 8330.LSE Surround SAM Kit - Five 8330APMs, One 7360A Subwoofer & GLM V2.0 Kit with Volume Control $7,400

 

[mel]

Here are some closing thoughts regarding your last few posts.

Classical recordings, especially good ones will have plenty of dynamic range and will definitely test the available "headroom" (Max SPL) of your chosen Studio monitors + Active subwoofer.
Crescendo's will test the monitors, while the sub-bass content such as rolling gong/bass drums will test the subwoofer's headroom.
Therefore even at your low-SPL (described as conversation level) I would recommend the larger package with the 5x 8330A + 7360A + GLM Kit (100w 5-inch monitors + 300w 10" Subwoofer) for those peaks/bursts of SPL energy.
Not only will the higher Max SPL translate as typical realism of an Orchestra, operating the monitors be in their "comfort zone" will be ideal for optimal performance. Also Studio monitors are typically SPL limited due to being designed for near-field, therefore the a model up is recommended to acquire all the headroom you can get.
In the case of 8320 vs 8330 it is only +4dB extra headroom, but I am sure it will be more than that in 5.1 arrangement + active subwoofer + GLM kit calibration.
8330A is "± 1.5 dB (58 Hz - 20 kHz)" but you will likely be crossing them over somewhere between 80-100hz to the 7360A.

You have correctly listed the GLM kits (hub + microphone) with GLM compatible monitors (ethernet connection).
The Kit with identical 5 monitors is recommended, due to minor character differences in sound you usually do not want to mix and match like you mentioned above (8341A + 8320A).
All recommended "immersive systems" on Genelec Official use matching monitor models.
Also the 8341A and 8320A differences in power output/sensitivity and low-frequency response may create a challenge and less smooth experience with GLM setup.

If you have a look at page 9 of the "Immersive Solutions Guide" (Genelec Official).
You will see that the 8330A has just that tiny amount of "direct sound dominance" distance advantage over the 8320A (with the compromise of increased minimum near-field distance).
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn.../Genelec_Immersive_Solutions_Guide_-_2021.pdf
Edit: You already found this, but I think the 2nd image (the same from "Immersive Solutions Guide") is more relevant for surround application (distance to centre point is limited by surrounding speakers).

Also if you have a look under "Audio Solutions" on Genelec Official, the current closest system is the 11x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination (7.1.4).
https://www.genelec.com/film-drama-post/8340-7370-immersive-system
(7.1.4 Atmos is the new version of 5.1 surround)

So for 5.1 in Professional environment they will likely recommend 5x 8340A + 1x 7370A + GLM combination, so the 5x 8330A + 1x 7360A + GLM kit you linked would be a step down in size from that.

Regarding different surround setups, I am sure GLM is very flexible and will accommodate whichever source material you input (5.1 SACD) and process accordingly.



You say you like to be able to move around, you are a "butterfly", in which case you will want more distance between monitors (bigger yurt) for greater flexiblity.
(Therefore I think 8330A is the better recommendation with its greater distance direct sound dominance)
Placing the monitors close to the walls can have its own advantages.
Here is a quick video explaining some basics:

In terms of Rear-ported Bass-reflex design, since port-tuning frequency is most-commonly an omni-directional low-frequency the only minor benefit/difference of front-ported design is the distance from the front to the rear of the speaker (speaker depth).

(7.1.4 Atmos is the new version of 5.1 surround)

I compared The Doors, Riders on the Storm, in Dolby Atmos and 2.1 recordings. I could hear a big difference. The 32 frequency bands on the RME display are very different, which confirms what I heard. The sounds of nature are particularly good indicators of naturalism. The sound of rain and thunder sounded much more convincing on Dolby Atmos, even on my micro stereo speakers.

 

[voodooless]

Time to fix the topic title then

 

[mel]

Time to fix the topic title then

I'm trying to tie a ribbon around this and bring it to an end. Lots of details that keep cropping up. For example, the subwoofers need to be from SAM to achieve the desired 5.1 result with GLM. The online retailer packages are typically not SAM.

• https://www.genelec.com/smart-active-studio-subwoofers
• https://www.genelec.com/7360a

 

[mononoaware]

For this to work, I need to be sure that Tidal properly recognizing my AV receiver to pass 5.1 content.

• I remember Tidal acting screwy, but I forgot the details.
• I fear Tidal will send 2.1 content.

Sorry I am not entirely familiar with reliable sources for Music content in Surround formats (5.1, 7.1.4 etc).
You will have to search for threads on that topic or start your own with specific questions.

 

[mel]

Sorry I am not entirely familiar with reliable sources for Music content in Surround formats (5.1, 7.1.4 etc).
You will have to search for threads on that topic or start your own with specific questions.

OK. This was just intended to be a warning to others, not a question to be answered.

Tidal chooses whether to send 2.1 or 5.1 content depending upon device capabilities. That's just logical to conserve resources. Don't send additional information that cannot be processed.

If I come across the link again, I will post it.

 

[mononoaware]

For this to work, I need to be sure that Tidal properly recognizing my AV receiver to pass 5.1 content.

I think the AV receiver just needs to correctly decode the digital signal (surround) sent by streaming service (streamer/player/computer).
I am not familiar with surround sound, but it may also be worth studying various surround signals.

As I understand it original 5.1 (home cinema) is a compressed audio signal.
Your 5.1 SACD may have superior lossless 5.1 (just a guess).
(Some streaming services may be undesirable source?)

 

[mel]

I'm trying to tie a ribbon around this and bring it to an end. Lots of details that keep cropping up. For example, the subwoofers need to be from SAM to achieve the desired 5.1 result with GLM. The online retailer packages are typically not SAM.

• https://www.genelec.com/smart-active-studio-subwoofers
• https://www.genelec.com/7350a

How about: "How a choice between ELAC Navis and KEF LS50W active speakers resulted in a 5.1 Genelec, GLM-based(Cloud) decision."

 

[mel]

I think the AV receiver just needs to recognise the digital signal sent by Tidal stream (streamer/player/computer).
I am not familiar with surround sound, but it may also be worth studying various surround signals.

As I understand it original 5.1 is a compressed audio signal.
Your 5.1 SACD may have superior lossless 5.1 (just a guess).
(Some streaming services may be undesirable source?)

• SACD is how MTT and SFS distribute 5.1.
• I also have Blue Ray Dolby Digital DTS 5.1.

I cannot find much 5.1 streaming content. Until decent content becomes available, I think the more reasonable choice is to buy a 2.1 GLM-based system that is 5.1 compatible.

Tidal is making a half-hearted attempt to provide 5.1 content as Dolby Atmos. Atmos, as you know, requires speakers that point upwards towards the ceiling and downwards towards the floor. I don't know how much Genelec GLM can compensate for this, or even at all.

A 5.1 system means moving to the center of my room for the satellite, or SR and SL channels to be positioned properly. I am reluctant to move from a wall to the center of the room. My table is not very stable. Walking around will be inconvenient, too.

My 13m x 5m rectangular room does not accommodate circles very well. The ratio is not square enough. My room is oval, rather than, circle shaped.

 

[mononoaware]

I cannot find much 5.1 streaming content. Until decent content becomes available,

What about lossless 5.1 digital download? (Purchase instead of stream)

I should also explain I misunderstood the function of GLM Hub.
I thought the Ethernet cable connections had two functions:
1. to calibrate/program
2. send AES digital signal to every monitor.
But GLM Hub is only for calibrating/programming.

I think this is a missed opportunity which would have dramatically streamlined the experience for customers, since the compatible monitors already accept digital signal. . .