Where would be the ideal spot for speakers in my room?

[Elmutcho]

Hi there.
In my main living room, I have a weird alcove where all the AV equipment is located. It is asymmetrically at the long end of a L shaped open plan living room, with the kitchen behind the couch. Room is 10m long from the TV, 2.5m high, 5.5m width at couch, opening up to about 9metres at the kitchen dining. The alcove is 50cm deep.

Currently have Triangle Titus EZ speakers which I’d like to upgrade due to the size of the space. They are where they due to small children, couldn't be on stands. But the kids are almost able to be trusted a little more soon. (I have Genelec 8341a in the other room on stands and they have been safe)

Question is where would be best for a speaker in ideal circumstances.
- if I went for compact actives, should they go in the alcove and where.
- Or should I bring them out into the room, in which case they’d be >50cm from the back wall
- if I went for larger passives eg: Lintons, Kef or Mofi. Should I think about a model with a bass shelf and keep them closer to the alcove, or move them out towards the edges and what effect that would have?

There is no acoustic treatment and never will be. Inevitably there is compromise, but I’d appreciate any help.

 

[Marc v E]

Hi there.
In my main living room, I have a weird alcove where all the AV equipment is located. It is asymmetrically at the long end of a L shaped open plan living room, with the kitchen behind the couch. Room is 10m long from the TV, 2.5m high, 5.5m width at couch, opening up to about 9metres at the kitchen dining. The alcove is 50cm deep.

Currently have Triangle Titus EZ speakers which I’d like to upgrade due to the size of the space. They are where they due to small children, couldn't be on stands. But the kids are almost able to be trusted a little more soon. (I have Genelec 8341a in the other room on stands and they have been safe)

Question is where would be best for a speaker in ideal circumstances.
- if I went for compact actives, should they go in the alcove and where.
- Or should I bring them out into the room, in which case they’d be >50cm from the back wall
- if I went for larger passives eg: Lintons, Kef or Mofi. Should I think about a model with a bass shelf and keep them closer to the alcove, or move them out towards the edges and what effect that would have?

There is no acoustic treatment and never will be. Inevitably there is compromise, but I’d appreciate any help.


View attachment 539406

If I understand you correctly you say you have 3 constraints:
Sitting 10 m from the tv, the alcove needs to stay as it is, plus no room treatment.

Question is where would be best for a speaker in ideal circumstances.
- if I went for compact actives, should they go in the alcove and where.
A: not in the alcove, lots of reflections, interrupting the direct sound, making it uneven and very hard to eq. I personally love active speakers. If you choose them make sure they have enough power to reach you 10 m away.

- Or should I bring them out into the room, in which case they’d be >50cm from the back wall
A: yes, outside of the alcove, close to the long wall and the wall next to the doors to avoid the bass sound reflected from the front wall to cancel out what goes in front of the speakers. I would wall mount them.

- if I went for larger passives eg: Lintons, Kef or Mofi. Should I think about a model with a bass shelf and keep them closer to the alcove, or move them out towards the edges and what effect that would have?
A: bass shelf and subs for the lows. This will make the bass sounds coming from the speakers that reflect to the wall less, thus improving clarity in voices and instruments. I don't think a larger model speaker will help much concerning bass. My guess is you need 2 ways.

Your main challenge imo is that you sit almost twice the distance of the maximum width between your front speakers. Ideally you would have some seats halfway. If some comfy chairs can be rotated to the tv when watching movies or listening to music, this would help the most.

I would choose an avr, hang the speakers just outside the alcove on the wall in the corner and one right next to the doors.

Center speaker, rears and subs of course.
Let the automated eq in the avr take care of the acoustics.

Alternatively I would use the alcove for a build in tv and speakers, making the alcove flush with the wall. That way you can make it look fancy and help with the acoustics.

PS: trying your Genelec 8341 in different positions, in the alcove, outside; you sitting on the couch, then sitting half-way, will tell you what is possible in your room with an optimal (coaxial) speaker regarding eq and reflections. (Non-coaxial two or three way will give a less optimal result.) That way you can assess the pros and cons on facts. I guess you already have glm kit plus microphone; if not, that would be the best and cheapest way to know what can be achieved in your room by changing positions and eq.

 

[Elmutcho]

Thanks for the reply, sorry, to clarify listening distance is about 4m from speakers where they currently are. Here’s a floor plan.

 

[Marc v E]

Thanks for the reply, sorry, to clarify listening distance is about 4m from speakers where they currently are. Here’s a floor plan.View attachment 539463

Glad to hear that.
Your seating position makes the sound considerably better.

Regarding the alcove I would experiment a bit with the Genelecs and listen how the different positions change the outcome. (After calibration)

 

[Chrispy]

That room has many issues.

 

[Marc v E]

This just popped up in my mind: you can use the Genelec glm grade report to see what is good in your room and what can be improved upon.

Since you already bought the 8341, I'm sure Genelec will be happy to guide you through the process if you need some help.

Also here, in the forums a grade report would help a lot in giving you practical feedback you can use.

 

[Elmutcho]

This just popped up in my mind: you can use the Genelec glm grade report to see what is good in your room and what can be improved upon.

Since you already bought the 8341, I'm sure Genelec will be happy to guide you through the process if you need some help.

Also here, in the forums a grade report would help a lot in giving you practical feedback you can use.

Thanks, good idea. Though I’m hesitant to move them because I’ve got them dialled in and they sound so good..

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Alternatively I would use the alcove for a build in tv and speakers, making the alcove flush with the wall. That way you can make it look fancy and help with the acoustics.

Good idea, and with self assembly options (like Ikea), easy to do, customize, and remove if that is relevant later on. That would definitely make things simpler, and open up more options for speaker choices. But it won't change the issues with the rest of the room, and there are issues. Going this route, I would try a slight tow bias towards the dining room, btw, which might result in a better balance L/R in terms of first reflections.

Personally, I would go with ported speakers, leave them in the alcove in a symmetrical set up, and conceptualize the alcove as a "bass driver" in my mind. That would at least make me feel better about the compromises.

No constraints, a corner placement oriented towards the dining room would be an option. Makes TV placement a pain, wastes some space, but acoustically makes sense to me.

 

[markstein]

Hi, I have a similar difficult L-shaped room with open floor plan. Room height approx 2.7m.
Listening distance approx. 3.8m. No equilateral listening triangle - speakers are a little closer than listening distance. Listening sofa is located in an alcoven. Left side is a window, right side is open to the kitchen.

You want a loudspeaker with sufficient power, high vertical directivity and very well behaved horizontal directivity. Candidates could be Neumann KH420, or Genelec S360. For acoustic and aesthetic reasons I personally went for the cardioid Ascilab C8C and also ordered the bass extensions module BX8C which should arrive soon. The cardioid directivity clearly makes a positive difference in lower mids when placing the speakers close to the back wall. Especially voices sound much clearer than with monopole speakers, without need for equalizing to minimize the effects of SBIR. Sound stage is very precise even in my suboptimal setup. The need for acoustical treatment is minimized.

 

[markstein]

Addition: I also strongly recommend to add a nice thick carpet on the floor between speakers and listening position. This can make a noticeable (positive) difference.

 

[Elmutcho]

Addition: I also strongly recommend to add a nice thick carpet on the floor between speakers and listening position. This can make a noticeable (positive) difference.

Yes done that, definitely helps

 

[markstein]

Yes done that, definitely helps

Don't see it on your photo. The carpet should be as large as possible, not only a small area below the coffee table, if possible.

 

[Elmutcho]

Don't see it on your photo. The carpet should be as large as possible, not only a small area below the coffee table, if possible.

Yeah I realised it doesn’t show up in the photo due to the iPhone wide lens, it’s 4x3m wool with a thick underlay. Also got a large soft couch which is helping with general echo. Amazing difference when I moved them around for renovations

 

[markstein]

This just popped up in my mind: you can use the Genelec glm grade report to see what is good in your room and what can be improved upon.

Since you already bought the 8341, I'm sure Genelec will be happy to guide you through the process if you need some help.

Also here, in the forums a grade report would help a lot in giving you practical feedback you can use.

I think a Genelec One (vertical directivity = horizontal directivity) is not optimal in this room and for this large listening distance - would choose the S360 instead or something similar.

 

[Marc v E]

I think a Genelec One (vertical directivity = horizontal directivity) is not optimal in this room and for this large listening distance - would choose the S360 instead or something similar.

It's purpose is testing and evaluating how speaker positions alter the sound and if that is acceptable to the OP.
The 8341 the OP already has in another room will help a lot in this regard, a grade report tells more than we could ever do based on pictures (imo).

Ime a coaxial speaker should show what is possible regarding imaging in the room with the alcove and what can be eq-ed out if all circumstances are optimal. Spl and bass will not fill that room, for sure. I know that.

 

[goat76]

Just by looking at your plan, I think that the “dining” area would probably be the best area for setting up the stereo system, thanks to solid walls on both sides of each loudspeaker.
That would be my first choice if it's possible to move the dining area to the current HiFi area.

If the above is not possible, I would try the secondary setup in the plan below.

 

[Elmutcho]

Just by looking at your plan, I think that the “dining” area would probably be the best area for setting up the stereo system, thanks to solid walls on both sides of each loudspeaker.
That would be my first choice if it's possible to move the dining area to the current HiFi area.

If the above is not possible, I would try the secondary setup in the plan below.


View attachment 539781

Thanks, nice ideas but the layout is set.