Where is the magic on this setup?

[jm_vectrab]

hey guys, new here I am from Brazil.

later in 2013 I had a setup based on forums recommendations and it was the following:

-HU Kenwood Excelon KDC-X595

-2way component speakers German Maestro CS6508 (old MB quart)
Tweeter Size: 1.2" (30 mm) MegaSphere™ Titanium Dome
Woofer Size: 6.5" (16.5 cm) Polypropylene Cone
Impedance: 4 Ω
Power Handling: 50 W DIN RMS / 160 W Max
Frequency Response: 35 – 28,000 Hz
Crossover Frequency: 5,500 Hz
Sensitivity: 89 dB (2.83V/1m)

-Rockford Fosgate Prime R300X4 class AB amp

-10" RF sub in the back, sealed box

-Good quality RCAs, damped doors, 3mm wires from amp to speakers, all the good stuff.

Idk what was the magic there, maybe the titanium dome tweeters.. but I played flac files and it just sounded so good! clear, powerful, amazing high-pitch notes, sharp... I remember being really amazed the first time I heard it, and to this date I havent heard anything better or even close.

I tried to replicate later on (around 2017) using 2way morel maximo w similar specs, hu kenwood excelon series x300 I believe and same prime RF AB amp but it didnt sound even close... nowadays in 2023 I did another one w pioneer MVH-X7000BR HU + audiophonic 2way component (both very well know here, recommended as one of the best) AB amp and meh sound good but still not good enough..

So here I am trying to solve this mystery... what do you think it was?

my questions start with the HU, what differentiate a good unit? is the chip specs processing inside? technologies? features? how to check and break down to compare with one another..? like a computer cpu for example (i3, i7 ,cores etc)

going to speakers, frequency range and sensitivity is all that matters? materials? maybe the magic was indeed on the titanium tweeters?

idk..its so frustrating trying to explain this without understanding what it really was, idk much about audio, just happen to build and experience it to never be able to replicate lol what an irony.

maybe, what kind of components would you recommend today that -for sure- would replicate/sound better ?

Thanks in advance, I apreciate the feedback.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Get a measurement mic and share some data, otherwise we're left to speculate I'm afraid.

 

[kemmler3D]

Акустика German Maestro CS6508

ЗВУЧАНИЕ. Высокие частоты «титановые» — яркие и звонкие, аттенюатор лучше убавлять. Середина прорисована детально и ровно. Хорошо идут как ...

www.автозвук.рф

If I am reading this right, it has pretty wide dispersion in the treble, so that would probably fit with your description of "clear", "amazing hi-pitch", and "sharp".

Also not much bass, so not contradictory there either.

 

[Chrispy]

All this was installed in the same vehicle?

 

[jm_vectrab]

@RexrothPigeon, this setup is long gone as I sold it before selling the car back then (wish I hadn't if I knew lol)

@kemmler3D correct, it had a small sealed sub in the trunk and I always tuned it down on settings, it was there to complete the setup but not a big fan of loud bass or loudness at all, it definitely could achieve it and not lose quality but I was amazed with the sheer fidelity it had on all notes.

@Chrispy they were all different vehicles, I did damped the doors the same way on all of them, only difference is that I didnt bother to use 3mm wires to speakers again as its a lot of work to cross from inside to the doors... so the later two had the oem wires in that small passage.. I was thinking if that could be an issue... but again as I said not aiming powerful loud, just wanted to get to that level of quality again.


rephrasing the original post, what to look for/aim on a high fidelity setup ?

what component is the most responsible looking at hardware level?
why choose HU x or y ? do they all process the same or close enough nowadays ?
is it the speakers/treble build quality that matters most? frequency range, installation, settings ?
is AB amp still the best on qualityXcost or digital has come along ?

sorry for the load of questions hahah I know theres a bunch of factors here, I just find difficult to get this awnsers as most people seem to recommend based on hersey, what they heard, application.. I want to break this down to specs like we were to build a pc, engine etc

 

[Keith_W]

In a vehicle, the way the speakers are installed are more important than the components itself.

 

[thewas]

In a vehicle, the way the speakers are installed are more important than the components itself.

Also like in everything audio related the by far most important factor which decides on high satisfaction or not is the frequency response tuning.

 

[Redacted]

Also like in everything audio related the by far most important factor which decides on high satisfaction or not is the frequency response tuning.

In a car, the important thing that I observe from the outside appears to be is: 120dB, over 10-200Hz at 20% distortion, and no possible means to identify the "music" or drum machine being deployed Anyone cruising the streets, parked outside a school or shopping at Asda without this will look like a shrink-dick.

 

[jm_vectrab]

thanks, I always thought they were in similar positions but looking at pictures the first setup had the tweeters in the inside mirror trim (that triangle shape cover on the corners) while the later two had they positioned lower (side or slight above the open handle lever). the woofers were all the same as factory default in most cars.

this kit has small plastic stands, I will try to relocate them to the corners on the dash and listen before setting the angle, lets see if that helps.

I was also doing a hearing test on youtube and can hear up to 13-14k hz, so all those specs above that range wouldn't make a diference correct? (for me lol)

the component system I am using right now has a passive crossover (set to +3gain) and on tests seems to cut around 5.2k... I would like to try adjusting it for woofers to be below 4k (around 3800) and leave the tweeters to pick above that slope curve... do you think it worth trying a audio processor?

weird is that the 1st setup was also on passive crossovers and by specs even above the 5.2k point (5.5) and had this power and clear voices, these other while good seems faded, its hard to explain.

 

[Chrispy]

Like with home gear, the room/cabin and placement will make a lot of difference. The speakers themselves take up most of the responsibility for audio otherwise rather than electronics. Your sonic memory is generally poor, so your bias is likely very much at work as well.

I like the Kenwood head units, been using a Kenwood KDC X493 for many years, but recently the display has gone crazy, so can't change settings but still works. I'll be replacing it with the KDC X305 when I finally get around to it. I use an external amp for four of the six speakers (all coax full range,, two run off the headunit amps), but don't remember the brand of the external amp and the speakers, been about 15 years since I had them installed) I have an Infinity 12" sub (REF1200s driver in a sealed box) and Fosgate R500x1D amp and remember those as had to replace a few years back initially due a short that took out the original sub amp and driver, replaced with another 10" driver at first before that box was stolen a year later ).

Good luck at finding the sound you want....

 

[jm_vectrab]

I was reading the documentation and my pioneer x7000 HU has a network mode that turns it pretty much into a DSP looks like.. RCA channels will output tw/mid/sw with crossover tune and gain adjustment, instead default F/R/SW.

I can use it to eliminate the passive crossovers and pass new wires for the tw, would use 4 channels on the amp one for each (1FL mid, 1FL tw / 1FR mid 1FR tw) It might improve a lot.. lets see