Where Have All the Serious Audiophiles Gone?

[peanuts]

For Canadians on cold winter nights, I recommend these (900s):
View attachment 77676

actually Bob`s designs runs cool. he puts his hands on the tubes during demonstrations and advertises a 15 year tube warranty or something.
the guy is one clever bloke.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

actually Bob`s designs runs cool. he puts his hands on the tubes during demonstrations and advertises a 15 year tube warranty or something.
the guy is one clever bloke.

The Mcintosh tube amps also run relatively cool because the Unity Coupled output transformer allows them to run the tubes closer to class "B".

 

[MSTARK]

actually Bob`s designs runs cool. he puts his hands on the tubes during demonstrations and advertises a 15 year tube warranty or something.
the guy is one clever bloke.

I know. And yes, he’s pretty clever. These amps are not getting enough recognition in the community for some reason. Maybe it’s the marketing or he just doesn’t want to be overwhelmed with orders? Could be his retirement project.

 

[Unclevanya]

For Canadians on cold winter nights, I recommend these (900s):
View attachment 77676

When I was in college they sold off their tube based oscilloscopes. I bought a rather large one. I played with it but it's main use was to heat my room in the Winter lol!

 

[MSTARK]

When I was in college they sold off their tube based oscilloscopes. I bought a rather large one. I played with it but it's main use was to heat my room in the Winter lol!

Yupp, they makes wonderful hand warmers. My 300b monos (2x300b on each amp) keep pesky kids away from my rock. They might touch it once but never again.

 

[sergeauckland]

When I was in college they sold off their tube based oscilloscopes. I bought a rather large one. I played with it but it's main use was to heat my room in the Winter lol!

When I was a young and irresponsible engineer, we had large Tektronix tubed 'scopes on trolleys in our lab. After a liquid lunch, we'd often drape ourselves over the 'scope, face into the viewing hood, and blissfully fall asleep with the warmth of the scope and the gentle hum of the fan. Anybody that asked, we were chasing some very elusive high frequency oscillation that was very difficult to see....Convincing enough until somebody snored...

S.

 

[GXAlan]

The Mcintosh tube amps also run relatively cool because the Unity Coupled output transformer allows them to run the tubes closer to class "B".

That’s what people say but my Mc2102 draws >200W from the outlet for its 100Wx2

 

[CDMC]

I know. And yes, he’s pretty clever. These amps are not getting enough recognition in the community for some reason. Maybe it’s the marketing or he just doesn’t want to be overwhelmed with orders? Could be his retirement project.

The high end community doesn't like Bob Carver very much. They get all upset when someone shows up with an amp that costs way less than their beloved piece, performs better objectively, and sounds the same in a blind test. It started with his Phase Linear amps that had a lot of power for less money than the competition. (His original amp design was in a coffee can and caused quiet a stir at the McIntosh clinics when it put our more power than their huge amps). It continued when Bob challenged Stereophile that he could make his Carver amps sound like any amp they chose in a blind test and did so. His Carver amps were constantly labeled as poor sound quality and not having the power, many claiming they had inadequate power supplies since they were light (they used a switching power supply and multiple voltage rails). The high end community also didn't like his use of op amps.

It is no different than Class D amps are now. They measure well, perform well, but constantly are derided by the high end community as sounding poor and not having this or that. It is what happens when your personal value becomes tied to your audio equipment and you spent a lot of money. Now all of sudden some guy shows up at your elite $10,000 amp club with a $1,000 amp that is every bit as good subjectively, and wipes the floor objectively. Look no further than something like the Parsound JC1+ amps at $17,000. They put out less power with higher distortion than a pair of NC1200 based amps which are $2,500.

I am sure a lot of high end companies are not happy with Carver's tube amps. His cheap amp puts out more clean power than their big amps, is designed so the tubes last a lifetime, and has a lifetime warranty. His middle amp is 350 watts a channel. His insane no holes barred amp is $32,000, real high end money, but puts out 900 watts and will drive a one ohm load.

 

[MSTARK]

The high end community doesn't like Bob Carver very much. They get all upset when someone shows up with an amp that costs way less than their beloved piece, performs better objectively, and sounds the same in a blind test. It started with his Phase Linear amps that had a lot of power for less money than the competition. (His original amp design was in a coffee can and caused quiet a stir at the McIntosh clinics when it put our more power than their huge amps). It continued when Bob challenged Stereophile that he could make his Carver amps sound like any amp they chose in a blind test and did so. His Carver amps were constantly labeled as poor sound quality and not having the power, many claiming they had inadequate power supplies since they were light (they used a switching power supply and multiple voltage rails). The high end community also didn't like his use of op amps.

It is no different than Class D amps are now. They measure well, perform well, but constantly are derided by the high end community as sounding poor and not having this or that. It is what happens when your personal value becomes tied to your audio equipment and you spent a lot of money. Now all of sudden some guy shows up at your elite $10,000 amp club with a $1,000 amp that is every bit as good subjectively, and wipes the floor objectively. Look no further than something like the Parsound JC1+ amps at $17,000. They put out less power with higher distortion than a pair of NC1200 based amps which are $2,500.

I am sure a lot of high end companies are not happy with Carver's tube amps. His cheap amp puts out more clean power than their big amps, is designed so the tubes last a lifetime, and has a lifetime warranty. His middle amp is 350 watts a channel. His insane no holes barred amp is $32,000, real high end money, but puts out 900 watts and will drive a one ohm load.

I’ve heard about that amp challangr story, and I think it took him 48hrs to get it done in the hotel room with whatever he could fit in the back of his trunk.
That 900wpc beast is unheard off. That “little” one (what’s it, like 75wpc?) is getting rave reviews. People love that thing. I wouldn’t mind owning that amp. And I’m pretty sure that my Cornwalls wouldn’t mind that either.

 

[RichB]

I’ve heard about that amp challangr story, and I think it took him 48hrs to get it done in the hotel room with whatever he could fit in the back of his trunk.
That 900wpc beast is unheard off. That “little” one (what’s it, like 75wpc?) is getting rave reviews. People love that thing. I wouldn’t mind owning that amp. And I’m pretty sure that my Cornwalls wouldn’t mind that either.

So a SS amp can be dumbed down to tube level performance.
It's not so easy the other way round.

- Rich

 

[MSTARK]

So a SS amp can be dumbed down to tube level performance.
It's not so easy the other way round.

- Rich

Who is this mad man?

 

[restorer-john]

(His original amp design was in a coffee can and caused quiet a stir at the McIntosh clinics when it put our more power than their huge amps)

Quite a stir perhaps. Maybe because was switching rectified mains with no power transformer using high voltage TV transistors? Or is that another urban legend that did the rounds to discredit the man...

The high end really has a lot to answer for.

 

[RichB]

Who is this mad man?

Bob Carver.

- Rich

 

[NTK]

I’ve heard about that amp challangr story ...

Here is the story.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

 

[mhardy6647]

That 900wpc beast is unheard off. That “little” one (what’s it, like 75wpc?) is getting rave reviews. People love that thing. I wouldn’t mind owning that amp. And I’m pretty sure that my Cornwalls wouldn’t mind that either.

Interesting. There was an initial flurry of interest in the "Crimson 275" amp (which I assume is the one to which you refer), and a significantly discounted introductory price* -- but, after some pretty weird on-line "marketing" by Carver's crony Frank Malik, things got pretty quiet.

I've looked pretty hard for real information and opinions on the amp from folks who bought and had lived with one for a while -- and have turned up very, very little.

If you know of some thorough review/assessements, by all means, please do share links (feel free to PM if you prefer).

The amp is tiny, including the OPTs.
https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/copy-of-crimson-raven

_____________
* I came very close to springing for one at the intro price, but my skepticism of all things associated with Bob Carver won out and I didn't.

 

[MSTARK]

Interesting. There was an initial flurry of interest in the "Crimson 275" amp (which I assume is the one to which you refer), and a significantly discounted introductory price* -- but, after some pretty weird on-line "marketing" by Carver's crony Frank Malik, things got pretty quiet.

I've looked pretty hard for real information and opinions on the amp from folks who bought and had lived with one for a while -- and have turned up very, very little.

If you know of some thorough review/assessements, by all means, please do share links (feel free to PM if you prefer).

The amp is tiny, including the OPTs.
https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/copy-of-crimson-raven

View attachment 77994
_____________
* I came very close to springing for one at the intro price, but my skepticism of all things associated with Bob Carver won out and I didn't.

That’s the amp I was referring to.
And you’re right. Getting some meaningful feedback from actual users is not easy. Reviews from ppl who bought it are very positive but far from helpful.
I could ask my dealer who carries Bob’s Flagship speakers if he could get these amps in his store.....
But no promises. I’ll let you know in a week or so if that’s a possibility.
If it is, I could probably take this amp home for comparison.

 

[mhardy6647]

That’s the amp I was referring to.
And you’re right. Getting some meaningful feedback from actual users is not easy. Reviews from ppl who bought it are very positive but far from helpful.
I could ask my dealer who carries Bob’s Flagship speakers if he could get these amps in his store.....
But no promises. I’ll let you know in a week or so if that’s a possibility.
If it is, I could probably take this amp home for comparison.

That would be cool -- as it's certainly an intriguing amplifier.

 

[MSTARK]

That would be cool -- as it's certainly an intriguing amplifier.

Yes, it is and it has been on my mind for quite some time. I’ll give my dealer a call next week and see if it’s possible to get that amp in. They have been super sensitive lately due to COV19 so I am not sure if they’re willing do accommodate my request? But I’ll try.

 

[Feanor]

The high end community doesn't like Bob Carver very much. They get all upset when someone shows up with an amp that costs way less than their beloved piece, performs better objectively, and sounds the same in a blind test. It started with his Phase Linear amps that had a lot of power for less money than the competition. ...

I owned Phase Linear 400 amp for years. Pity me: it sounded like shiite -- shrill, opaque highs. I finally realized it was unlistenable despite that an expert technician checked it out said it was working fine.

... Oh wai! pardon my lapse: all amps sound the same, right?

 

[RichB]

Here is the story.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

Why not use a very clean class-A amp and then null the performance around that using something like feed-forward technology.
There is an objective standard, its called linear amplification with zero distortion. That's the target not some gigantic 25 watt space heater.

- Rich