Where are the Chinese phono cartridges? I'm tired of snake oil and ridiculous pricing

[Krillin]

I'm so tired of snake oil and excessive prices for MM/MI/MC cartridges. Feels like price gouging, extortion and profiteering all rolled into one. Please explain to me how a cartridge costs $500+ to produce. Then on top of that a replacement MM stylus costs $576 for the Ortofon 2M black replacement stylus. There is no way in hell a replacement stylus costs as much as a brand spanking new Playstation 5.

With what I have seen from brands like Topping, Gustard, and SMSL producing such great products at a fraction of the price of the competition. Where are the phono products? Phono cartridges are last great bastion in audio snake oil, and even where there is a quality product we are still taken to the cleaners.

Here's some interesting measurements by the way with many more at the hifinews site.
Audio-Technica AT-OC9xsh £570

Audio-Technica AT-OC9XSH Cartridge Lab Report

Lab Report Most recently tested in HFN Jul '09 and Jan '11, comparisons between the last 'OC9s and this new 'OC9XSH are instructive. The headline change lies in the AT-OC9XSH's response or, more correctly, a difference in the left and right channel responses – the left flat to within tight...

www.hifinews.com

Ortofon 2M black £829

Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 Cartridge Lab Report

Lab Report Delivering a substantial 4.7mV (re. 1kHz/5cm/sec) output, albeit some 1.8dB lower than the whopping 5.8mV recorded for the 2M Black [HFN Mar '11], Ortofon's flagship LVB 250 derivative is otherwise a new chip off a very reliable block. The 'MWCNT' suspension yeilds a slightly softer...

www.hifinews.com

Denon DL-A110 (DL-103 special edition) £499

Denon DL-A110 Cartridge Lab Report

Lab Report This iconic MC design offers a useful 0.55mV/200ohm output (re. 1kHz/5cm/sec) – albeit with a moderate 0.85dB channel imbalance in our sample – which is some 3dB higher than the rated 0.39mV that came with the certificate. The reference response also supplied with each DL-A110 shows a...

www.hifinews.com

Ortofon MC Anna diamond £7250

Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Cartridge Lab Report

Lab Report Much is made of the concentrated magnetic flux of the MC Anna's high-end rare-earth magnet, and while this does not significantly boost output – the limited number of turns in the OFC 'moving-coil' reflected in its 6ohm impedance – the low 207µV (re. 1kHz/5cm/sec) of this '2019'...

www.hifinews.com

Ortofon MC verismo £5349

Ortofon MC Verismo Cartridge Lab Report

Lab Report Ortofon's Verismo is the latest in a line of state-of-the-art MCs from the Danish brand that have been tested in these pages. These include the MC A90 [HFN Sep '09], the Anna [HFN Oct '12], the Windfeld Ti [HFN Jan '18] and Anna Diamond [HFN Oct '19]. All are low-output (low coil...

www.hifinews.com

 

[Chrispy]

I thought the inconvenience and illogical aspects were prime attractions to vinyl in the first place.....I do regret Shure withdrew from the market, but....

 

[JeffS7444]

I've been meaning to pick up an AT-VM95ML: At 169 USD, it seems like a reasonable way for me to step up to a microline stylus.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I doubt you will see these. They don't dovetail in with the ability to automate production and produce larges numbers at low prices like electronics do. While they might have lower pay for workers (and that isn't as true as it once was) those low paid workers likely don't have the skill to hand wind the parts for cartridges. Plus the market is probably too small to attract much attention.

What might make some sense if anyone cared to do so, is to set up a business that supplies key components in a DIY community. Tutorials and secrets to making your own quality devices with the tips and magnets needed or the pieces around which you wind the coils. It also might be the kind of area that 3D printing could make inroads into a niche market.

You see some of this sort of thing in ribbon microphones. Those in principle are pretty simple and there is a small DIY community for those.

 

[Zoomer]

I don't understand the complaint. The snake oil and excessive prices are a feature not a bug.
What would be left of the vinyl fad without the aura and snob-appeal of an expensive hobby? Inconvenience and below SOTA SQ.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't understand the complaint. The snake oil and excessive prices are a feature not a bug.
What would be left of the vinyl fad without the aura and snob-appeal of an expensive hobby? Inconvenience and below SOTA SQ.

I'm sure you've all seen this one.

 

[Mart68]

The ridiculous price of replacement styli was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. £250 every six months? Just not worth it.

Added to which the cost of buying more albums, even second-hand, is ludicrous. I can get second-hand CDs for a pound a go, bought three just the other day which would have been at least a tenner each if I'd got them on second-hand vinyl and £20 to £30 each if bought new.

I agree that there is profiteering going on with cartridges but the die hards just don't seem to care. Which is why there's profiteering going on.

 

[thewas]

Here is a Chinese brand but unfortunately not really with the desired price/value ratio

http://www.skyanalog.com/

Would also like to see one from the above mentioned companies, mind you those also don't produce loudspeakers which are also electromechanic transducers, just on the other side and direction.

 

[restorer-john]

You want Chinese? Buy the Chinese manufactured Audio Technica AT-3600L (AT-91) for about $15. It's a fabulous bargain.

 

[xaviescacs]

I'm sure you've all seen this one.

First time for me.

 

[TheBatsEar]

AT-VM95ML

+1, i have this one. Paid 143€ at Amazon.de

 

[TrevC]

+1, i have this one. Paid 143€ at Amazon.de

Me too, an excellent cartridge.

 

[Digby]

I like the Goldring G1042. There are some comparisons on Youtube where it seems within spitting distance of an AT MC cart costing 4 times as much. Stylus relatively cheap (in the UK), something like £180. I do question why many stylii cost about 3/4 of the price of the complete cart, this does seems a relatively new trend.

Likely everything else, used to be much cheaper and yes, the cost of cartridges has steadily got rather more expensive since about 2012.

Not a great track to use for comparison, but there you go.

 

[Digby]

I agree that there is profiteering going on with cartridges but the die hards just don't seem to care. Which is why there's profiteering going on.

It is undoubtedly a fad; up until, say, 2010ish, the only music being pressed to vinyl, more or less, was electronic music and punk (grimy stuff, not Green Day). Now, you can get Lenny Kravitz, Madonna, whatever on vinyl and all the music that kept the industry going for 20 years, seems to take 18 months to go from test pressing to general release stage.

 

[Mart68]

It is undoubtedly a fad; up until, say, 2010ish, the only music being pressed to vinyl, more or less, was electronic music and punk (grimy stuff, not Green Day). Now, you can get Lenny Kravitz, Madonna, whatever on vinyl and all the music that kept the industry going for 20 years, seems to take 18 months to go from test pressing to general release stage.

well everyone I know who is into vinyl has been into it for decades and they like their Pink Floyd and other music from that era.

I did not really survive the period from 1990 to 2000 or so when it was hard to find new releases on vinyl so I gradually got accustomed to digital and started to find it was preferable to me.

As others have pointed out you can still get cartridges of acceptable quality for reasonable money. But again everyone I know insists on using moving coils at up to two grand a go. They don't seem to have a problem with paying those prices, or £500 for a re-tip. I don't get it, but for them it isn't a fad, it's a lifelong affection/affliction

 

[Digby]

I think the uptick by youngsters and nostalgia by elders is the fad part. When I bought records in late 90s, early 00s, that was the only was to get that particular music, so it was a case of needs must. DJing played a part too.

I imagine a good proportion of the hipster/nostalgia contingent will drift away, what do you think, 70% or so? I rarely buy anything new on vinyl, so equipment lasts a long time. I can't justify the cost of MC to myself, quite happy with MM (might try the Ortofon 2M Black, sounds nice, though it is pricy!)

Obviously the 30% will stick around. I do wonder what they did in the dark times, mothball their equipment or just play what they already had?

 

[DSJR]

You want Chinese? Buy the Chinese manufactured Audio Technica AT-3600L (AT-91) for about $15. It's a fabulous bargain.

I also gather the AT95's (maybe the VM95's too) were Chinese made and incredible value (the 1970's 'reference budget cartridge' Shure M75-ED would be $/£250 or so today, so VM540 price, the 1990's budget reference Linn K9 in the UK, is around VM740 price, so the thick end of three hundred quid)...

I'm a huge fan of the VM95ML and if the SH version 'calms the hf a little' as I believe it does, who really needs better for this compromised source unless you're a masochist? - takes one to know one but I can't afford expensive vinyl confections these days...

P.S. The AT91/91R are two gramme trackers and surprisingly good despite the conical stylus. the 3600L is froim memory a three gramme tracker and a bit 'slugged' sounding I remember. Same body though and upgraded with a Dual DN251E or equivalent elliptical stylus - I got a Thakker EPO-E stylus (with superb bonded elliptical tip) but not sure if it's available now sadly. Has a non rattly flip down stylus guard too.

DN 251 E Stylus for Dual DMS 251 S / DMS 251 E - Nudeline Swiss Made | THAKKER

www.thakker.eu

 

[raindance]

I've been meaning to pick up an AT-VM95ML: At 169 USD, it seems like a reasonable way for me to step up to a microline stylus.

Yes, good for medium to higher mass arms. My favorite is the VM540ML which has a slightly higher compliance and so works better on lighter arms. These styli track all the way to the end without getting fuzzy sounding. They are bright sounding cartridges and require very low capacitive loading to prevent this.

I might be selling my VM540ML; I've been trying to sell my TT with no success, so might just sell separately...

 

[mhardy6647]

You want Chinese? Buy the Chinese manufactured Audio Technica AT-3600L (AT-91) for about $15. It's a fabulous bargain.

This is the one that the budget-minded vinylista get all a-twitter about.
Here's 57 pages of rhapsodizing about it.

$11 Chinese AT3600L Thread Mk. II - Champagne sound on a Beer budget!

After the previous thread met an unfortunate demise, I figured it would be a waste to let all the info just vanish completely. Champagne Sound for...

audiokarma.org

The tactics described in the folk tales Stone Soup and Nail Broth are also in evidence. One will note examples of folks tarting up their $11 USD cartridge with much more expensive styli.

Direct from LP record, warm crackle and all.

Disclosures:
1) Umm, yeah, I have one of these cartridges. "NIB" -- I've yet to have the urge to try it.
2) I love that Danny Kaye album. An aunt & uncle gave me a copy a long, long, long time ago. The stories are burned into my autonomic nervous system.

 

[Mart68]

Obviously the 30% will stick around. I do wonder what they did in the dark times, mothball their equipment or just play what they already had?

I think like myself they played what they had, and also bought on the second hand market. I don't know what the scene is like now but there used to be a record fair within striking distance of me at least once a month.

There were also several fairly well-stocked second hand record stores in Manchester which is only 25 minutes away on the train, so back in the 1990s I would go up there several times a year and get a big haul. That was before prices for s/h vinyl went crazy though.