Where are all the women audiophiles?

[Multicore]

As an experiment, I ignore-listed every post (and thus poster) in the humour thread that included a WAF comment, sexist joke, and so on. Soon enough whole pages were blank. Low-level stuff of course, but often off-putting.

Yes but it's also fairly typical of the social dynamic that supports such cultures and as such can be instructive. In a men-only or -dominated space newcomers discover that they are socially rewarded for fitting in and that critique of the prevailing culture is not. How such cultures came to be is usually forgotten and even irrelevant. I've been very interested for many years in group culture, especially in the workplace, and by no means limited to sexism. Diligence, competence, integrity, reliability, openness, confidence and so on, and their opposites I've noticed usually seem to be locally culturally defined to some extent.

But back on the question of sex I have a number of family, friends, and acquaintances from Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries where it was simply a matter of policy that technical, scientific and mathematical educations and careers were equally open to both. Since the 1990s that changed as Western cultures were adopted. I like to ask people who lived through that change about it and I can't report any who didn't think it a loss.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

left brain/right brain distinctions

Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[antcollinet]

Although we were brought up under the same roof, by the same parents, sometimes I think my sisters and I grew up in different worlds: Long before I was able to articulate any preferences in the matter, my toys were almost all military-, tool- and machine-themed, while my sister's toys had more creative and nurturing themes.

Almost certainly your parents would have treated you differently from your sisters - even if subtly. Even as parents we are products of the way we have been brought up, and even if we consciously want to treat all our children the same we cannot stop our unconscious biases influencing how we behave.

Then there are all the influences from TV and from outside of the home - it is relentless.

I'm not saying it is all nurture - I've no actual knowledge but I'd guess there is some nature in it also. But I think nurture is far more significant than most people think.

 

[DVinylfan]

My wife didn't just pop in from the kitchen to say "that thread sounds interesting!"
All stereotypes aside, it would be a shame if there was not an honorable mention here of Martina Schoener.

Home - Plattenspieler

www.artduson.com

 

[Keith_W]

There is no barrier to entry for women who want to participate in our hobby, yet they don't. So the answer is very simple: they aren't interested. I don't see why anybody should have an issue with that.

 

[respice finem]

...As an experiment, I ignore-listed every post (and thus poster) in the humour thread that included a WAF comment, sexist joke, and so on. Soon enough whole pages were blank. Low-level stuff of course, but often off-putting.

I am probably biased, or conditioned differently, born as a Polish "boomer" behind the iron curtain. Back in the day, it was kind of a virtue to be able to laugh about everything and everyone, and most importantly, oneself. Blondes were telling "atrocious" blonde jokes, doctors "evil" doctor jokes etc. Even party apparatchicks, as soon as they reached the needed alcohol level, were saying things that would certainly land them in the Gulag one border further to the East.

In a way, it gave you a feeling of inner freedom and of being "normal". Hard to understand for anyone who wasn't born into this strange "climate".
But this autoironic notion is still there and can easily "infect" other people, once they understand it is not seriously offensive, just "deliberately silly".
Kind of willingly getting a little crazy, to escape insanity.

And, differently but again, we are living in insane times...

 

[Matt_Holland]

I still don't get it. Can you explain the sarcasm?

I was sarcastically saying that a (typical) woman would not describe a metallic colour as being metallic because women tend not to be interested in technical details.

 

[antcollinet]

I was sarcastically saying that a (typical) woman would not describe a metallic colour as being metallic because women tend not to be interested in technical details.

Precisely the type of gross generalisation I was hoping we could avoid.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Precisely the type of gross generalisation I was hoping we could avoid.

Hence the sarcasm, which many seemed to not get.

But let’s also be honest about objective differences between males and females. Female representation on ASR is probably the inverse percentage of males in pre-school child care.

 

[DanielT]

This didn't sound so nice:

Industry Leaders Expose the Sexist Culture That Kicks Women Out of the Hobby

Five “women in Hi-Fi” broke their silence on what it's really like inside this male-dominated hobby.

www.headphonesty.com

 

[Keith_W]

"Many women" feel "dismissed or talked over"

FFS, we dismiss and talk over each other. It is normal form of discourse. If someone comes here and starts blabbing about cables, the dismissal is immediate and brutal! And look at who they interviewed ... one of them is the COO of Cardas, another is the editor of Hifi Pig (subjectivist rag), another is the CEO of Innuos (makers of overpriced streamers and USB reclockers). If any of them came here, I would be the first to "dismiss and talk over" them. And it's not going to be because of their gender.

If you don't want to be "dismissed or talked over", then don't talk nonsense. Your identity does not matter, all that matters are your ideas.

 

[DanielT]

"Many women" feel "dismissed or talked over"

FFS, we dismiss and talk over each other. It is normal form of discourse. If someone comes here and starts blabbing about cables, the dismissal is immediate and brutal! And look at who they interviewed ... one of them is the COO of Cardas, another is the editor of Hifi Pig (subjectivist rag), another is the CEO of Innuos (makers of overpriced streamers and USB reclockers). If any of them came here, I would be the first to "dismiss and talk over" them. And it's not going to be because of their gender.

If you don't want to be "dismissed or talked over", then don't talk nonsense. Your identity does not matter, all that matters are your ideas.

You have a point. It may not really be a case of gender discrimination.

Then it becomes a question of gender roles and how men and women discuss and argue things between each other. Which in itself is a huge social, sociological and or psychological topic in itself. Also one of the most popular themes for various comic sketches. Misunderstandings in communication and what it leads to.The recognition humor associated with it.

 

[antcollinet]

Your identity does not matter, all that matters are your ideas.

Not the experience of virtually every woman I know well enough for the topic to come up.

 

[Somafunk]

If you don't want to be "dismissed or talked over", then don't talk nonsense. Your identity does not matter, all that matters are your ideas.

Not necessarily the case, sexism and misogynistic behaviour is quite rife in all walks of life, obviously being male I have never suffered from it but in every single employment role when I have been aware of it, I have called it out, quite often to my detriment which reinforces my belief that a significant majority of men are dicks.

 

[respice finem]

"Testosterone dicks"... We are often hormone driven, more than we think. The rest is group dynamics and such.

 

[Robbo99999]

Whenever I'm at a wedding or some other celebration featuring music and a dance floor, women are the first ones out there, often times dancing with each other, no male within 20 yards. From these anecdotal observations, it seems women truly love music, so much so they'll jump at the chance to move and gyrate their whole bodies to its rhythms and beats at the risk of looking foolish (Elaine, anyone?).

If that's remotely correct, why are there so few women audiophiles (best estimates are 5-10% of us)? Is this a good thing - better for men to be men among men - or would the hobby be better off with more women being part of the community, doing measurements, commenting on threads, going to audio shows, providing greater attention to visual aesthetics, etc.

What are your thoughts? BTW, anyone know how many registered members of ASR identified as women? Might be a good place to start. . Thank you in advance.

I think women tend to just focus on whether they like the music rather than thinking about how best to play it back at best quality. They probably have a very practical approach to music, they either like it or they don't, doesn't matter to them re optimising the playback. Males tend to be more obsessive about detailed specific topics, maybe some correlation with increased chance of being "on spectrum" if you're a male, so greater tendency for hyper focus on otherwise obscure topics/hobbies. The good thing is that I think it's been proven in the research that both men & women like good sound if they have to choose in a study, so the result of ASR is that it's optimised sound for both men & women, just most women aren't interested in the process, they just like (& accept) the end product (the music), but it's quite possible (highly probable even) the women would still enjoy playback more on a good quality system even if they're not really thinking about it or engaged in that aspect; so ASR = good sound for both man & women (& beast?)!

 

[Soniclife]

"Many women" feel "dismissed or talked over"

Do you realise you just made their point for them?

 

[wadude]

It’s been interesting to go speaker shopping with my wife. We have different ideas about what we like. One pair we both agreed sounded fantastic were some Thiels in a high end shop about thirty two years ago. Unfortunately we didn’t have the bucks! Recently we restored some Advents found at a church sale. She glued, I “supervised.”

 

[JeffS7444]

Guys aren't taught to bond with other guys over shared feelings, unless there's sports or hardware involved.

 

[respice finem]

Or when they hardly have a choice, like in the military, church, etc.