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Where are all the women audiophiles?

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Having seen these questions and quandaries raised many times in audio forums for many years now, I have a couple of observations.

— Focusing on generally low representation of women among hi-fi enthusiasts, audio engineers and product designers, and music-industry technical professionals obscures as much as it reveals. There's nothing particularly problematic about the audio world that explains things that you don't find replicated in consumer electronics writ large and computing and energy and structural and mechanical engineering and so on. The numbers may vary to some degree but things that involve tinkering with gadgets and high-tech components and wide swathes of applied science also have roughly these same statistics. Being intensely involved with cameras and photography, evaluating and choosing the best televisions, being fascinated with automobiles, motorcycles, bikes — same thing, a large preponderance of male engagement. Audio has no special claim to enhanced guilt or misogynistic blight or sociological circumstances that make it worse (or better) than all these other realms. It's not particularly an audiophile thing — the syndrome is much, much bigger.

— Discrimination and harassment and condescentation toward women and other unwelcoming behaviors are obviously real, but so is self-selection and the free expression of affinity on the part of women. It's difficult in general to disentangle things that push women away and out or suppress their enthusiasm, from free choice and inherent proclivities. There's a lot of confusing and inconvenient if ambiguous evidence that even when you diligently remove all gender stereotyping and remove everything that tends to push boys toward conventional boy things and girls toward conventional girls things, there's still a mysterious marked tendency for boys to do boy things and girls to do girl things.

— You might expect extremely challenging scientific and technical fields like medicine and life sciences to match the same numbers, but the representation and achievements of women in those fields seems to far surpass the lower numbers in the other technical fields mentioned above. Genius and obsession is distributed equally between men and women but the channels genius follows often dramatically diverge.

— I don't think there's any practical action plan that men should embrace in order to seriously change and reform these things in the communities of audio enthusiasts. Be kind, don't be a dick, and do not tolerate boorish and hostile attitudes and stupidity directed at women in particular or in general. Beyond that it's largely up to women to participate or not, perhaps to congregate in women-only audio spaces if that's amenable and fruitful, and help keep the hi-fi spirit positive and moving forward publicly or privately in any way they choose. And although there are downsides to online anonymity (hello, trolls!), it's entirely possible to be in the swim of audio enthusiasm without ever disclosing whether you're a man or a woman if that's how you want to roll.
 
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inconvenient if ambiguous evidence that even when you diligently remove all gender stereotyping and remove everything that tends to push boys toward conventional boy things and girls toward conventional girls things
That has never happened, and can't, at least in today's societies. Gender based socialisation is insidious and continuous, and is everywhere. Including in the minds of even the most progressive parents.
 
That has never happened, and can't, at least in today's societies. Gender based socialisation is insidious and continuous, and is everywhere. Including in the minds of even the most progressive parents.
That’s why I said ambiguous, to avoid being categorical and overstating the evidence, which you’re doing in the opposite direction !
 
There's a lot of confusing and inconvenient if ambiguous evidence that even when you diligently remove all gender stereotyping and remove everything that tends to push boys toward conventional boy things and girls toward conventional girls things, there's still a mysterious marked tendency for boys to do boy things and girls to do girl things.

We can't raise children and be blind to their sex, so un/conscious normative gender acculturation is impossible to control for, and regression analysis is pretty tricky. And if we posit male/female gender as a binary, then we won't get far in any analysis.

I don't think there's any practical action plan that men should embrace in order to seriously change and reform these things in the communities of audio enthusiasts. Be kind, don't be a dick, and do not tolerate boorish and hostile attitudes and stupidity directed at women in particular or in general. Beyond that ...

Well, I've read the 'humor' thread. I've experimented with hitting 'ignore' on every post that mocks/belittles/objectifies/stereotypes 'women' and come up with entire blank pages. We don't achieve your baseline.
 
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Having seen these questions and quandaries raised many times in audio forums for many years now, I have a couple of observations.

— Focusing on generally low representation of women among hi-fi enthusiasts, audio engineers and product designers, and music-industry technical professionals obscures as much as it reveals. There's nothing particularly problematic about the audio world that explains things that you don't find replicated in consumer electronics writ large and computing and energy and structural and mechanical engineering and so on. The numbers may vary to some degree but things that involve tinkering with gadgets and high-tech components and wide swathes of applied science also have roughly these same statistics. Being intensely involved with cameras and photography, evaluating and choosing the best televisions, being fascinated with automobiles, motorcycles, bikes — same thing, a large preponderance of male engagement. Audio has no special claim to enhanced guilt or misogynistic blight or sociological circumstances that make it worse (or better) than all these other realms. It's not particularly an audiophile thing — the syndrome is much, much bigger.

— Discrimination and harassment and condescentation toward women and other unwelcoming behaviors are obviously real, but so is self-selection and the free expression of affinity on the part of women. It's difficult in general to disentangle things that push women away and out or suppress their enthusiasm, from free choice and inherent proclivities. There's a lot of confusing and inconvenient if ambiguous evidence that even when you diligently remove all gender stereotyping and remove everything that tends to push boys toward conventional boy things and girls toward conventional girls things, there's still a mysterious marked tendency for boys to do boy things and girls to do girl things.

— You might expect extremely challenging scientific and technical fields like medicine and life sciences to match the same numbers, but the representation and achievements of women in those fields seems to far surpass the lower numbers in the other technical fields mentioned above. Genius and obsession is distributed equally between men and women but the channels genius follows often dramatically diverge.

— I don't think there's any practical action plan that men should embrace in order to seriously change and reform these things in the communities of audio enthusiasts. Be kind, don't be a dick, and do not tolerate boorish and hostile attitudes and stupidity directed at women in particular or in general. Beyond that it's largely up to women to participate or not, perhaps to congregate in women-only audio spaces if that's amenable and fruitful, and help keep the hi-fi spirit positive and moving forward publicly or privately in any way they choose. And although there are downsides to online anonymity (hello, trolls!), it's entirely possible to be in the swim of audio enthusiasm without ever disclosing whether you're a man or a woman if that's how you want to roll.
Great post
 
We can't raise children and be blind to their sex, so un/conscious normative gender acculturation is impossible to control for, and regression analysis is pretty tricky. And if we posit male/female gender as a binary, then we won't get far in any analysis.



Well, I've read the 'humor' thread. I've experimented with hitting 'ignore' on every post that mocks/belittles/objectifies/stereotypes 'women' and come up with entire blank pages. We don't achieve your baseline.
hear hear
 
AI may IMHO some day attempt "maskirovka" = including imperfections to avoid detection.
 
See that em-dash? It's AI.
I had to look up em-days em-dash. Didn’t know what it was, but I use them from time to time because I like the way they look. I’m genuinely curious what you don’t care for in the post.
 
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I had to look up em-days. Didn’t know what it was, but I use them from time to time because I like the way they look. I’m genuinely curious what you don’t care for in the post.

I honestly didn't bother reading it. I saw the em-dash, thought it was AI. I don't read anything written by AI.
 
I honestly didn't bother reading it. I saw the em-dash, thought it was AI. I don't read anything written by AI.
WTF is wrong with you? I was a professional journalist for decades and a senior editor at The New Yorker and have used em-dashes my entire life — and I hate AI slop with the fire of a thousand suns and would rather die that use an AI tool to write. Are you some kind of crazed bunyip?

:D
 
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As a lifelong em-dash lover, this is a top five reason I resent ai chatbots. I don't like that post, but I'd be shocked if it's ai--it is riddled with grammar and mechanics errors, the kinds that ai never makes.
I honestly didn't bother reading it. I saw the em-dash, thought it was AI. I don't read anything written by AI.
WTF is wrong with you? I was a professional journalist for decades and a senior editor at The New Yorker and have used em-dashes my entire life — and I hate AI slop with the fire of a thousand suns and would rather die that use an AI tool to write. Are you some kind of crazed bunyip?

:D

I'm pretty fond of the em-dash myself. I didn't notice until Keith pointed them out because they're deployed here with spaces either side. WTF indeed. That's deeper into the Bunyip crazy than I'm wont to go. And not The New Yorker style surely?

Edit: veracity aside, I didn't hear the squawking of stochastic parrots when I read and quoted the text—but you never know with the putative 'advances' declared daily by the billionaire shills.
 
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WTF is wrong with you? I was a professional journalist for decades and a senior editor at The New Yorker and have used em-dashes my entire life — and I hate AI slop with the fire of a thousand suns and would rather die that use an AI tool to write. Are you some kind of crazed bunyip?

:D
So in this thread I’ve learned about em-dashes, and crazed bunyips. What a great couple of days its been!
 
Are you some kind of crazed bunyip?

Ha! I like that, i'm going to start using it!

Anyway, I think we at ASR have a huge blind spot in the audio market. The VAST majority of the market are: headphones, lifestyle products, Bluetooth speakers, and Sonos. I was at a hifi shop a few weeks ago and a lady came in and bought some B&O speakers. From her appearance, she looked like a smart and successful woman. She had some specific requirements - it had to plug in to her TV, had to receive radio, had to be able to stream. And she wanted to control all of it with Alexa. If you asked me that question, I wouldn't know where to begin! Yes, I know how to read REW measurements. I understand amplifier and DAC measurements. I can blather about DSP all day long. But ... integrate radio into a BT speaker? ALEXA?!? How many of you know the answer? :)

It made me think that my priorities are completely different. In a way, she's right. I can imagine the way she uses her system - she probably doesn't sit in front of it to concentrate on music, it's there to provide music when she's doing something else. What good is an audio system which is heavily optimized for ONE sweet spot? Why not an audio system that sounds good no matter where you are? Why not prioritize functionality and convenience?

Anyway, the salesman put together a solution for her using products I have never heard of. She paid for the lot and left.
 
Ha! I like that, i'm going to start using it!

Anyway, I think we at ASR have a huge blind spot in the audio market. The VAST majority of the market are: headphones, lifestyle products, Bluetooth speakers, and Sonos. I was at a hifi shop a few weeks ago and a lady came in and bought some B&O speakers. From her appearance, she looked like a smart and successful woman. She had some specific requirements - it had to plug in to her TV, had to receive radio, had to be able to stream. And she wanted to control all of it with Alexa. If you asked me that question, I wouldn't know where to begin! Yes, I know how to read REW measurements. I understand amplifier and DAC measurements. I can blather about DSP all day long. But ... integrate radio into a BT speaker? ALEXA?!? How many of you know the answer? :)

It made me think that my priorities are completely different. In a way, she's right. I can imagine the way she uses her system - she probably doesn't sit in front of it to concentrate on music, it's there to provide music when she's doing something else. What good is an audio system which is heavily optimized for ONE sweet spot? Why not an audio system that sounds good no matter where you are? Why not prioritize functionality and convenience?

Anyway, the salesman put together a solution for her using products I have never heard of. She paid for the lot and left.
I think that her perspective on audio is shared by the majority of consumers, regardless of gender. I love separates and high quality audio stuff to play with. But I also value user interface options that make it easy to use. Being the nerd that I am, I customize some of those interfaces myself. “Alexa, turn on the stereo”…. I also have a Xencel QuickKeys, that I’ve connected to Trinnov, and Roon.
 
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