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When Will We See PEQ in DACs?

wacomme

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On the lower price range we have the Qudelix 5K. But for DACs in the $200-$600 price range, when do you expect to see PEQ being integrated into manufacturer's DACs?

The reason I ask is because I currently have a DX3Pro+ that generally suits my needs (still within the Amazon return window). However, I often (not currently) have electrical interference issues, so I'd like to have balanced inputs to prevent interference from happening again. Thus, I'd like to purchase a more expensive AMP and DAC with balanced AMP inputs, but if PEQ integration in DACs become ubiquitous I would like to upgrade to such a system. I'd much rather sell or repurpose my $200 DX3Pro+ than do the same for a $500+ system.

Michael
 

Marc v E

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If you live in the US: minidsp flex at 495

If you live in the EU the cheapest dac option I know is the flex at 800,- euros and the Rew Adi Dac at around 1000,-.
Or do it in software with Camilladsp in a raspberry pi. For example it's integrated in Mo0de streamer playback software.
Now that I think of it that may be your best option: a raspberry pi streamer with dsp.
 
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wacomme

wacomme

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Thank you.

I think it's inevitable that PEQ will increasingly be integrated into lower priced DACs. But how soon? 1 year? 2 years? More?

If it's 5+ years before this integration becomes commonplace I might as well return my DX3Pro+ and buy a balanced input DAC/AMP.
 

stubaggs

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As Marc mentioned, a software DSP is an option. This adds some additional complexity and cost, but also flexibility. For example Roon has one built in.
 

Rednaxela

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How about your speakers?

Some active options have PEQs inside + balanced connections.
 

chuckt62

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So many of them already have DSP built in. They are just not implementing PEQ or GEQ either. It's hard to believe people are content with the crappy sound sigs that they do have.
I think the problem they have is the limited GUI most of them have. They'd pretty much need to develop PC GUIs via USB, or phone/tablet apps via BT. It seems like the HDW is already there for this.

miniDSP FTW so far. I've come to the conclusion that an SHD or Flex is in my near future.
 

Jimbob54

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I'm not sure we will in the mainstream. But I wish we would. I think it takes processing power and software coding that hardware manufs aren't prepared to invest in for what I suspect they view as a minority market.

Don't forget the majority of people who buy standalone dacs are probably labouring under the impression that components need "synergy" to sound their best, more than the music itself being manipulated.
 

chuckt62

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I'm not sure we will in the mainstream. But I wish we would. I think it takes processing power and software coding that hardware manufs aren't prepared to invest in for what I suspect they view as a minority market.

Don't forget the majority of people who buy standalone dacs are probably labouring under the impression that components need "synergy" to sound their best, more than the music itself being manipulated.
I think PEQ is more than "the majority of people" want/care to think about.
 

chuckt62

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Even when I see GEQ offered, they still have a bunch of prepackaged options like Hard Rock, Pop...
 

mdsimon2

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I think PEQ is more than "the majority of people" want/care to think about.

I agree. miniDSP has been around for 10+ years at this point and doesn't really have many competitors. If there was a true market need I am sure others would have offered similar products.

The good news for us is that a $55 RPi4 and free software can add very powerful DSP to pretty much any USB DAC.

I wouldn't mind more products like the Okto dac8 pro which are specifically designed to take an external digital input, apply DSP via a USB host running software DSP and then output the software DSP processed signal.

Michael
 

Sharpi31

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The good news for us is that a $55 RPi4 and free software can add very powerful DSP to pretty much any USB DAC.

Absolutely! I’m using Volumio with FusionDSP plugin and it works brilliantly on both an RPI3B and RPI4. PEQ, import of thousands of headphone EQs, crossfeed, loudness etc etc….. It’s a brilliant solution. If only raspberry pi’s were readily available now - I have two on order from different suppliers, and both are now expected to ship in early 2023.
 

chuckt62

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...The good news for us is that a $55 RPi4 and free software can add very powerful DSP to pretty much any USB DAC...
$55 and a prayer these days.
 

mdsimon2

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$55 and a prayer these days.

It is not as bad as it seems. I purchased four from digikey in April (originally quoted 2023 delivery) and they showed up in about a month even though they never updated their stock to indicate that they had them. I get the impression that some places are operating only based on pre-orders these days and are a bit sly about updating their inventory.

Michael
 

chuckt62

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Absolutely! I’m using Volumio with FusionDSP plugin and it works brilliantly on both an RPI3B and RPI4. PEQ, import of thousands of headphone EQs, crossfeed, loudness etc etc….. It’s a brilliant solution. If only raspberry pi’s were readily available now - I have two on order from different suppliers, and both are now expected to ship in early 2023.
My rPi 2b gets lost when I use FusionDSP. If I skip a couple songs it will lose connection to the music Lib and I'm forced to restart the DAC. It's probably the limited memory it has, but I've haven't look in detail.
 

MCH

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Absolutely! I’m using Volumio with FusionDSP plugin and it works brilliantly on both an RPI3B and RPI4. PEQ, import of thousands of headphone EQs, crossfeed, loudness etc etc….. It’s a brilliant solution. If only raspberry pi’s were readily available now - I have two on order from different suppliers, and both are now expected to ship in early 2023.
Are you in europe?

Ups, the link doesn't bring you there directly, but they have the pi 4 2gb in stock
 
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wacomme

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Absolutely! I’m using Volumio with FusionDSP plugin and it works brilliantly on both an RPI3B and RPI4. PEQ, import of thousands of headphone EQs, crossfeed, loudness etc etc….. It’s a brilliant solution. If only raspberry pi’s were readily available now - I have two on order from different suppliers, and both are now expected to ship in early 2023.
I

The good news for us is that a $55 RPi4 and free software can add very powerful DSP to pretty much any USB DAC.


Michael
From what I'm hearing, DSP within inexpensive DACs won't be ubiquitous anytime soon. However, a RPi4 with free PEQ software, can readily be added to the chain to essentially create the same objective, though with an additional device.

So, how is this done? If I have a source (computer, iPhone, external hard drive with music files), do I connect the source via USB to the RPi4 running PEQ software, then USB to the DAC . . AMP . . . headphone or speakers?

I know if I'm using a computer as the source I can just use PEQ software for the computer, but for an iPhone or portable HD as the source this seems cheap and effective. It's not as aesthetic as DSP built into the DAC, but if that's not coming anytime soon and I need to use a source other than my computer, then the RPi4 approach sounds good.

If I'm using my computer (Macbook) as the source with PEQ software, is there any reason to offload the DSP to a RPi4?
 

mdsimon2

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From what I'm hearing, DSP within inexpensive DACs won't be ubiquitous anytime soon. However, a RPi4 with free PEQ software, can readily be added to the chain to essentially create the same objective, though with an additional device.

So, how is this done? If I have a source (computer, iPhone, external hard drive with music files), do I connect the source via USB to the RPi4 running PEQ software, then USB to the DAC . . AMP . . . headphone or speakers?

I know if I'm using a computer as the source I can just use PEQ software for the computer, but for an iPhone or portable HD as the source this seems cheap and effective. It's not as aesthetic as DSP built into the DAC, but if that's not coming anytime soon and I need to use a source other than my computer, then the RPi4 approach sounds good.

If I'm using my computer (Macbook) as the source with PEQ software, is there any reason to offload the DSP to a RPi4?

Easiest option? Just get a miniDSP Flex or SHD. They have competent DACs, a nice display, 4 channel output so you can easily integrate subs, a variety of inputs and good DSP power.

If you want to go software and are already starting from a computer I would not worry about the RPi. There are many different software DSP options depending on your OS (see threads linked below). I've used CamillaDSP on a mac mini and it worked very well but may not be the most user friendly option.


To me the RPi is a good option if you are not starting from a computer and want a cheap, powerful, small and quiet DSP solution. It also has the advantage of having GPIO pins so you can integrate things like displays. The link in my signature has a lot of info on what can be done with a RPi for both streamer (AirPlay, squeezelite, bluetooth inputs) and physical input (SPDIF, TOSLINK, AES, analog) use cases while running CamillaDSP. In general physical inputs will need an audio interface type device with ability to use bi-directional USB audio (say SPDIF input of DAC -> DAC USB to RPi -> DSP on RPi -> DSP processed output back to DAC via USB). The end result can be rather professional looking.

1652901749665.png

Michael
 
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wacomme

wacomme

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Personally, if starting from scratch, I would go for the minidsp flex too. It may cost more but it takes less time.
What do you mean by taking less time? Why would you go this route instead of PEQ software on the computer + DAC + AMP?
 
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