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When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? by Billie Eilish: Insane bass

goat76

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I was totally put off by the insane amount of bass in this album, to the point it was unlistenable on my system
Recently I gave it a relisten with bass turned down to -24 db from my usual listening level of -15 db on my minidsped triple sub system

Now it was listenable to, with tolerable bass and enjoyable music
I am talking about the spotify premium version

Decided to pick up the vinyl

I am still shocked by the recording choices on this record
Would love to hear about your thoughts/ experiences with this album

It's a lot of deep bass and the level is mixed high on the album. Still, if you find it totally overwhelming on your system making it unlistenable it's possible your subwoofers need to be better integrated with your main speakers and your room, or maybe you have some ugly bass modes in your room.

You should be able to quite easily hear if it's your system/room that is the cause of the problem. Try listening to the album with some bass-capable headphones, and if you still find it unlistenable it's probably you who prefers less bass than Billie and her brother. :)
 
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Rednaxela

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The first ten seconds of this track on Spotify kind of hurt.


Less so here.


Same laptop, same earbuds, different window.

Could be anything of course, so again FWIW. :)
 

Sokel

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Redbook version,I just had a quick listen.
Not super deep but plenty,nothing to complain about except it's not my kind of music.
 
D

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i am running a 6db harman house curve
Most other albums sound fine

with the bass turned down i enjoy the album
Well, it's nothing over the top. Plenty of other much more gruesome tracks. Try watching your sub diaphragm while playing Post Malone - Sunflower
 

hege

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Eww, the whole album is full of "artistic distortion", complete crap if you ask me.

Bass wise there is hot bass but nothing excessive, and very little below 30hz. There is no spectrogram difference between redbook and hi-res streamed version.

3 - xanny.png 4 - you should see me in a crown.png
 

Graham849

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Happier than ever -edit - total distortion for 80% of track Spotify via wiim into Atoll > hifiman 400 se. Ouch.


Bury a friend much better just deeep bass
 

MaxwellsEq

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In order to get the effect that the bass 'distorts' the vocals, they are feeding the bass into the sidechain for processing the voice. It's quite a common trick that is sometimes used to make kick-drum slightly 'duck' the rest of the total sound. This replicates a power amp with poor regulation where heavy bass drains the capacitor reservoir and makes things briefly quieter (quite a common problem with 80s boom boxes). Because we're so used to the effect (and it's similar to the auto overload protection our ears have) our brains go "wow that must be loud, it's overloading the amplifier" and we think the bass is louder than it is! But then you listen on a fully regulated power amp and realise it's a trick...
 

Geert

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In order to get the effect that the bass 'distorts' the vocals, they are feeding the bass into the sidechain for processing the voice. It's quite a common trick that is sometimes used to make kick-drum slightly 'duck' the rest of the total sound.

Don't know where you heard this story but this is not how it works. You don't need side chain compression to duck a vocal, bass will do that automatically via the master compress if you're not careful. Also ducking a lead vocal is not what sound engineer 's are after, especially not with music build around a famous vocalist. Actually the challenge is making vocals cut through the mix within the dynamic range available (avoiding distortion).

Side chain compression is typically used to make a certain sound cut through, especially when there's a conflicting sound in the same frequency range. For example duck the bass guitar by the kick drum, or duck keyboards by a lead guitar.
 
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Plcamp

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I have the album. The bass is distorted in some of the tracks but I don't find it excessive. It is her style of music. It is a very good album.
Amir, is there a scientifically determined ‘human audible’ threshold for bass (say under 200 hz) distortion that is different to the transparency standard of -115 db SINAD which generally applies to the entire 20 kHz range?
 
D

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In order to get the effect that the bass 'distorts' the vocals, they are feeding the bass into the sidechain for processing the voice. It's quite a common trick that is sometimes used to make kick-drum slightly 'duck' the rest of the total sound. This replicates a power amp with poor regulation where heavy bass drains the capacitor reservoir and makes things briefly quieter (quite a common problem with 80s boom boxes). Because we're so used to the effect (and it's similar to the auto overload protection our ears have) our brains go "wow that must be loud, it's overloading the amplifier" and we think the bass is louder than it is! But then you listen on a fully regulated power amp and realise it's a trick...
Commonly used in EDM. I like the trick if it isn't overdone. The Norwegian EDM artist/producer, Kygo, uses it frequently and in his productions it seems fitting. High quality productions as well for the most part.
 

goat76

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Don't know where you heard this story but this is not how it works. You don't need side chain compression to duck a vocal, bass will do that automatically via the master compress if you're not careful. Also ducking a lead vocal is not what sound engineer 's are after, especially not with music build around a famous vocalist. Actually the challenge is making vocals cut through the mix within the dynamic range available (avoiding distortion).

Side chain compression is typically used to make a certain sound cut through, especially when there's a conflicting sound in the same frequency range. For example duck the bass guitar by the kick drum, or duck keyboards by a lead guitar.

What I think @MaxwellsEq was talking about was what may have been done to Billie's voice to make it distort in accordance with the bass distortion. Whatever effect was used to make the bass distort may have been side-chained from the bass track to the vocal track.
 

Geert

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What I think @MaxwellsEq was talking about was what may have been done to Billie's voice to make it distort in accordance with the bass distortion. Whatever effect was used to make the bass distort may have been side-chained from the bass track to the vocal track.

If that's what he meant than that's indeed an option but I had a different understanding as people said the bass was distorted, not the vocals. Take for example 'Bury a friend' I don't really notice a relationship between the bass and distortion of the vocal. Except for the part where the lead vocal is being doubled the vocal is actually pretty clean. Another song that was being reference here, 'You Should See Me In A Crown', the Spotify version is just crazy loud. That's were distortion sets in because you're out of headroom.
 
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hege

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Another song that was being reference here, 'You Should See Me In A Crown', the Spotify version is just crazy loud. That's were distortion sets in because you're out of headroom.
Who's out of headroom? The spotify version on last page sounds exactly like my redbook and hires and even LP rip versions. The files itself are nowhere near clipping, the 50hz bass peak hovers around -10dBFS. I listen to all sorts of music, but this is just bad and all the "cool distortion" makes it even worse. Cringe pop.
 

Geert

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Who's out of headroom? The spotify version on last page sounds exactly like my redbook and hires and even LP rip versions. The files itself are nowhere near clipping.

You can compress a song to dead and dump it on digital media at whatever level you want. During mastering it's very common to use software to manage digital headroom so on the digital front everything looks fine and dandy. On the dynamic range database I see the CD version of the song has a DR value of only 5,55dB, that's really low.

I listen to all sorts of music, but this is just bad and all the "cool distortion" makes it even worse. Cringe pop.

The 'cool distortion' is a creative choice. Also not my preferred style of music, but I try to keep the subjective part out of the judgement of sound quality.
 

goat76

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If that's what he meant than that's indeed an option but I had a different understanding as people said the bass was distorted, not the vocals. Take for example 'Bury a friend' I don't really notice a relationship between the base and distortion of the vocal. Except for the part where the lead vocal is being doubled the vocal is actually pretty clean. Another song that was being reference here, You Should See Me In A Crown, the Spotify version is just crazy loud. That's were distortion sets in because you're out of headroom.

The vocal is distorted in many of the tracks and is obviously an artistic choice made in the mixing stage of the production, but I'm not too sure it has any relationship with the distortion of the bass. The distortion sounds similar but the voice is still distorted even when the bass is not playing (for the parts I've been listening to).

Maybe @MaxwellsEq could be more specific about which track he is talking about, the one in which he hears the vocal being affected by the bass distortion?
 

sq225917

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Personally I think it's a brilliantly produced album, not clean, not free of distortion but artistically excellent. But you need a resolving system to hear it properly, full range FR, low distortion.

It's processed pop, no point wishing it was something it isn't.
 

sq225917

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I assume he means from 40 seconds into xanny. Which is obviously modulating the voice with the bass, before it starts firing the voice hard pan all around the room.

It's a song about doing drugs, you know...its meant to sound other worldly.
 

hege

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The 'cool distortion' is a creative choice. Also not my preferred style of music, but I try to keep the subjective part out of the judgement of sound quality.
How can you keep subjective part out of judging sound quality? Clearly the producers (and hopefully the artist) approved the end result, we are hearing what they intended (cliché). It makes no difference if the distortion is "unintended" or "intended". Personally it bothers me the way everything is presented, thus I'm not preferring this music. :)
 

MaxwellsEq

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If that's what he meant than that's indeed an option but I had a different understanding as people said the bass was distorted, not the vocals. Take for example 'Bury a friend' I don't really notice a relationship between the bass and distortion of the vocal. Except for the part where the lead vocal is being doubled the vocal is actually pretty clean. Another song that was being reference here, 'You Should See Me In A Crown', the Spotify version is just crazy loud. That's were distortion sets in because you're out of headroom.
Yes I wasn't just referring to standard compressor / limiter. One of the songs - it might be Xanny, I don't know the album - has a very interesting interesting effect where the "character" of the bass sound is modulating her voice so that it maps to the bass sound envelope (rather than level). So it's not standard compression. Her voice is changed by the bass tonality to take on a character that's similar.
 

antcollinet

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The vocal is distorted in many of the tracks and is obviously an artistic choice made in the mixing stage of the production, but I'm not too sure it has any relationship with the distortion of the bass. The distortion sounds similar but the voice is still distorted even when the bass is not playing (for the parts I've been listening to).

Maybe @MaxwellsEq could be more specific about which track he is talking about, the one in which he hears the vocal being affected by the bass distortion?
Try track xanny on the album in OP.

Listening from 0:35: Billies voice is clearly distorted while the bass is distorted, and is clean while the bass notes are not playing. Possibly the mixing has simply applied global distortion at those points in the track.

Yes I wasn't just referring to standard compressor / limiter. One of the songs - it might be Xanny, I don't know the album - has a very interesting interesting effect where the "character" of the bass sound is modulating her voice so that it maps to the bass sound envelope (rather than level). So it's not standard compression. Her voice is changed by the bass tonality to take on a character that's similar.

Exactly that.
 
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