So, I've joined audiophile journey 5-6 years ago, in that time I've had quite a few headphones: Sennheizer HD 215 -> Philips Fidelio X2 -> Hifiman Sundara -> Hifiman Ananda. It's not quite much, but still if we look price progression on these headphones, I went from bottom to sub-$1000, possibly end-game price for headphones for me. It was great journey and it was worth for me. But, my other chain didn't change a bit after I bought E-MU 0404 USB as a Dac and JDS Objective 2 Amp in the start. I was entirely focused on headphones, it's clearly for me headphones are most important part of audio chain by huge margin. Now I'm thinking should I start upgrading DAC/Amp? How much gain it will have? O2 Amp have plenty power for Ananda, in fact I run it at low gain 1.0x, so no amplification at all, just to lower output impedance I guess and to control volume. And DAC...Isn't DACs reached low noise level a while ago way below audible range (0404 USB has end product SNR measured by vendor is 112 dBA input, 117 dBA output)? It's just reality check because I consider to buy SMSL/Topping DAC + SMSL SP200. Thank you.
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When enough is enough or is there any need to upgrade entry-level DAC/Amp to complete with upper mid-fi headphones?
- Thread starter M0du1e
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
No need to upgrade the DAC nor the amp unless you need different functionality or more power or it has become defective or you need to scratch the upgrade itch or like the looks better or want to try balanced for some inexplicable reason.
Sound differences are in the headphones. Ananda is pretty decent. When you are bothered by the treble peak there are solutions.
Sound differences are in the headphones. Ananda is pretty decent. When you are bothered by the treble peak there are solutions.
Considering the human ear can't tell the difference between a smartphone DAC and AMP compared to a dedicated one costing hundreds or thousands of dollars I would say don't bother upgrading unless you want nice shiny aluminum boxes that look really cool and ensures you get the last 5% performance out of your headphones.
Generally anything above $2 yes $2 seems to be a lot of diminishing returns and waste of money
I want to build a new PC and my sound card is a PCI old time port so I ended up getting a new DAC and AMP external as new motherboards don't come with PCI interface anymore.
Generally anything above $2 yes $2 seems to be a lot of diminishing returns and waste of money
I want to build a new PC and my sound card is a PCI old time port so I ended up getting a new DAC and AMP external as new motherboards don't come with PCI interface anymore.
Well, I think you're are confusing audibility thresholds and available power. And power is really needed for many headphones. Which smartphone DAC/AMP is able to output, say, 250mW under 300ohms?
Saying the same things IOW:
These days It has come to aesthetics. features, ergonomics perhaps projected reliability and simply human wants and whims for DAC and Amp. Not sonic differences. If you have a scratch and have money burning your hands .. then .. Else ..
See below
These days It has come to aesthetics. features, ergonomics perhaps projected reliability and simply human wants and whims for DAC and Amp. Not sonic differences. If you have a scratch and have money burning your hands .. then .. Else ..
See below
Cahudson42
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OP has been intelligently updating the always-weakest link in the chain - the transducer. The next weakest is likely the AMP. Least weakest is likely the DAC.
The 02 has been a great amp for what? 5 years? But there are now, of course, better. For $99, Amir tested the Atom, and I think said it delivered twice the power of the 02. So if power is an issue, the Atom might be a decent choice. Other choices can be hundreds more (THX variants)..
Perhaps check out Amir's recommended amp list and their reviews?
My view is 'its never bad to have too much power' so a economical cost higher power amp seems a reasonable upgrade to me.
For myself, given that I am quite happy with lossless 16/44.1 from Amazon music HD, I've decided to be happy as long as my stuff delivers 16 bits - 100 SINAD or better... And the power to back off from an undistorted full volume too high to listen to - which of course is headphone dependent..
The 02 has been a great amp for what? 5 years? But there are now, of course, better. For $99, Amir tested the Atom, and I think said it delivered twice the power of the 02. So if power is an issue, the Atom might be a decent choice. Other choices can be hundreds more (THX variants)..
Perhaps check out Amir's recommended amp list and their reviews?
My view is 'its never bad to have too much power' so a economical cost higher power amp seems a reasonable upgrade to me.
For myself, given that I am quite happy with lossless 16/44.1 from Amazon music HD, I've decided to be happy as long as my stuff delivers 16 bits - 100 SINAD or better... And the power to back off from an undistorted full volume too high to listen to - which of course is headphone dependent..
- Thread Starter
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I don't think power is issue with O2, at least I get way more than enough volume control paired with Ananda, which is pretty efficient, even at low gain (1.0x). Howewer I don't know if more power will increase dynamics, soundstage, etc. I read Ananda thread on Head-fi and there are different opinions on that.
Also, did Amir reviewed O2 amp? I'd like to see O2 performance compared with newer gears like Atom. except obviously more power on these.
Cahudson42
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The O2 review is not where you might expect to find it. It's under Portable amps:
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...attery-operated-portable-headphone-amps.6312/
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...attery-operated-portable-headphone-amps.6312/
The fact that I own a HD 58x and a Budget cheapo Asus Xonar DG sound card and I have tested it with possibly the best DAC and AMP in the world that I upgraded to and the audible improvement was quite small, I would easily say NO, don't spend money for better sound you won't get it, it doesn't exist.
You will however pay for a nice big Aluminum Box which is a major plus if it comes with nice Blue LED
You will however pay for a nice big Aluminum Box which is a major plus if it comes with nice Blue LED
Considering that the O2 is a free to use low cost design which can be built as a DIY project developed to demonstrate that performance is a function of good design, not price or just using expensive components it is a testament to the skill of nwavguy that it is still a competitive design.
Headphone amplifiers are like DACs, if it is just about SQ you really don't need to spend much. JDS labs demonstrates that you can make a low cost high performance headphone amplifier even when manufacturing in a mature high labour cost economy like the USA. Even if you want good industrial design and materials the JDS Element line demonstrates you don't have to pay that much.
Headphone amplifiers are like DACs, if it is just about SQ you really don't need to spend much. JDS labs demonstrates that you can make a low cost high performance headphone amplifier even when manufacturing in a mature high labour cost economy like the USA. Even if you want good industrial design and materials the JDS Element line demonstrates you don't have to pay that much.
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