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When did you break the illusion of more expense is better? Did ASR help ;)

DSJR said:
I totally disagree. The bloody things were NEVER intended for high fidelity reproduction as such (this from one of the design team)! The main intent was to show distortion and hisssss in an outside broadcast van and they did that very well indeed at the time before stereo and a shielded speaker was required either side of the CRT video monitor. The domestic ones weren't as 'true' as the BBC-only 'centre-line' versions (XLR sockets on the back originally) and were bought as they were so tiny. Even then, the Spendor SA1 when new were a far more pleasant and speech-accurate listen and years later, the Harbeth P3 in original form, showed how beffuddled the LS3/5A was in terms of imaging (current P3ESR-XDs go a lot louder too before plopping out while still being low colouration on speech and cymbal-work).
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I agree that the LS-3/5A has significant limitations which is why the high end audio store I worked in just after college didn't try to sell a traded in pair but sent them off for only $300 to a 2nd hand specialist. However I did get a chance to listen to them and compare them to several high end speakers (this was around 1986). I noticed that the one thing LS-3/5As did surprisingly well (IMHO with my young ears) was render the human voice with amazing realism. Perhaps this was because they were also designed to be used to monitor the voices of radio broadcasters employed by the BBC.
 
Anyone who grew up reading Consumer Reports never had the illusion that more expensive is better.
 
I had a cynical distrust of advertised products and even branding as an arbiter of quality starting at an early age, learned from ordering toys from the back pages of my juvenile magazines that proved to be cheaply made and generally disappointing. There were several magazines that did not (or did not yet) accept advertising that also helped me realize the inconsistent link between price, brand and quality of audio gear (and other gear as well). However the most helpful were my ongoing listening tests comparing a variety of gear with music I chose, at home, and at several stereo stores (including some I worked at years ago). Lately my speaker purchases were certainly influenced by ASR and Erin's Audio Corner however I still try to arrange for listening tests, despite the greater challenge that can presently be.
 
Ralph_Cramden said:
Anyone who grew up reading Consumer Reports never had the illusion that more expensive is better.
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Yes despite getting some criticism and a lawsuit over their speaker reviews Consumer Reports up until the last 10 years did make a good effort to bypass advertising / marketing / commercial pressures and just focus on scientifically done unbiased and useful product comparisons. However in the last 10 years IMHO it has lost focus and depth in its reviews - and perhaps because of changes in its survey methodology its freedom from bias may also be less assured. I have followed the ongoing changes in Consumer Reports, have toured the facility (including their anechoic chamber) and even interviewed for a job there after college.
 
Marketing was, is and always will be what they want you to hear, never about what you actually need.
 
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Groove01 said:
Yes, I’m not sure I really appreciated it fully at the time TBH, but it was an experience for sure! I wouldn’t say I knew Ken well, but was around him enough to have a lot of respect for him.

Me, a local dealer, and another guy in the biz formed the club and had about 25 active members. A mix of tube guys, SS guys, and vintage guys. We brought a few manufacturers in to talk to the group and had several very knowledgeable folks like Ken and others. For a relatively small town, Richmond VA had a pretty active HiFi scene and some great dealers. One dealer in particular is a great guy and I learned a ton from him! (He is also an accomplished Tech). He was the glue for the club.

Hearing lots of different systems from SETs w/Avangards to full Rowland systems w/electro statics to totally homebrew systems was really informative. Several guys were using DSP back then (early 2000’s) with 4 or 5 speakers. Was a really good mix of guys and experience levels.

This experience helps you narrow your focus through experience- yes mostly subjective, but useful and helps level set the “bias”. Maybe..? At least I feel like it did for me. Some of my favorite systems were not the most $$ ones.

Fun story - Our group conducted a double blind level matched CD player shoot out. I brought a cheapo Panasonic DVD player. Roughly 8 or so players ranging from my $60 to $$$.

The Panasonic came in 2nd - lol.

This was a formative moment TBH. I still have that player too :D. One of the members posted the results on AudioAsylum and it went pretty viral (viral wasn’t really a thing back then I guess) and people on AA started doing $$ mods on the DVD player - lol. Even saw a company offering an $800/$1000 modded version of it - lol.
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That was really interesting thank you. I take it that the club is no longer active then. But it seems like you had a good thing going there. I was never lucky enough to find anything like that, had a few friends and acquaintances who had the bug for hifi and we used to feed off each other about it, but nothing as serious as a club. The internet though as it does changed ways people connect and that in itself opens up possibilities. A lot of that hasn't always been positives, but for pretty harmless hobbies like audio enthusiasts it brought its advantages. The discovery of a enthusiasts run show like we have in the UK was quite an achievement, and continues to be quite a spectacle when it goes ahead. Even with the UK being relatively small though, it's hard to include everyone, as enthusiasts are just so spread out logistically and have other commitments.

It's great to see you were dabling with blind tests at your club. And the cheap gear was competing to the point of where audiophiles were scoring it highly, that speaks for itself. And that's just another undocumented test (I think anyway) that remained at a club level. The thing is that DVD had a transport and a inbuilt DAC which was obviously 'good enough'. Take the bias out for an audience and it basically boils down to listener preference. Blind tests are so underrated in hifi it seems, and people still continue to buy completely with their hearts and eyes. But that is a recipe to be deceived.
 
Sorry just read the bit again about AA and it being documented. Still love hearing stories about when audiophiles have reality checks. Trouble is it seems it was modded then and gained popularity, and value. You can't win, it's like people are being suckered all the time in some shape or form.
 
Slightly off topic, Rtings did a toaster roundup and found out the cheapest one is actually the best, pretty funny stuff.
 
Westsounds said:
As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs. But for years you chased it, upgrade-itis, lusted after gear and chased false promises or suggestive information.

DACs for example can only get to a quality where your ears or measurement instruments can't differentiate, and it then becomes a personal preference or nuance in sound and effect you like. But the biggest factor probably being cost has no relation to ultimate quality. It usually cost more for better materials granted but not sound quality.

This isn't rocket science or magical mystics being generated it's basic consumer electronics. Would you agree?

Any factors that helped with your enlightenment, ASR perhaps, or owing infinite amounts of gear going around in circles?
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I was raised that way: You may not get what you pay for and you won't get what you don't pay for.
In other words: too cheap is likely to have many corners cut in ways that you won't notice (until later) and people who want a reasonable money but you won't pay for it puts you back at part 1. As to paying excess for something, well, I guess that is up to what you can stand financially. (yes, that was known to me [from my parents teachings}, allowance's that I worked for & my allowance savings account at the bank).
So, ever since I can remember, though a few slip up's have heavily reinforced those teachings.
 
Palladium said:
Slightly off topic, Rtings did a toaster roundup and found out the cheapest one is actually the best, pretty funny stuff.
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That doesn't appear to be the case, unfortunately
www.rtings.com

The 5 Best Toasters of 2025

The best toaster we've tested with two slots is the Breville the 'A Bit More' 2 Slice. It has a sturdy metal body with slots twice as wide as a slice of regular sandwich bread, so it can easily accommodate thickly sliced bread and chunky bagels.
www.rtings.com www.rtings.com
 
My first real music system was mad by KOSS, I purchased it in 1993 for 99.99. It was a mini component system and it sounded wonderful because it had a CD player. The CD sound blew me away coming from tapes. I've owned more expensive gear and it will never be the same as that first hit from that mini system. My two cents...
 
I attended a CD-player test like 20 years ago. It was level matched before playing up the same thing, can't say I noticed much difference between 200e and 10 times more.
Also invested money in cables early on, and figured out that I wasted tons for nothing
 
Westsounds said:
As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs. But for years you chased it, upgrade-itis, lusted after gear and chased false promises or suggestive information.
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It really is all so complicated. So much gear are decades long solved problems. Others you have to a inside knowledge of, not to be hoodwinked buy snake-oil marketing while also realize with some there's a point of diminishing returns, etc. That's why a science base website like ASR is so valuable in finding the true answers !
 
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Between here and Archimago I have been able to create a system over the past 3 years that makes me very happy. Thanks to all here who have increased my knowlege exponentially over that time. If the components last another 5 years I will have enjoyed my music and my expenditure.
 
The benefit of ASR is not just about audio. Its mission and value apply to how we can critically evaluate all of the messaging that bombards us in our daily lives. Making wiser choices and saving money are just a sub-set of the potential rewards.
 
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Palladium said:
Slightly off topic, Rtings did a toaster roundup and found out the cheapest one is actually the best, pretty funny stuff.
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It's no different to hifi, it's generally considered consumer electronics.

We are really getting into the weeds with this but as had been mentioned already in this thread 'good enough' is exactly that. Whether you want to get googly eyed over it and perceive it's value as infinite that's up to you. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay, beauty is only in the eye of the beholder and that. A hifi is good enough and designed to spec everything else is effect. Once you start going beyond that point things get just silly and the audiofools start taking over the asylum.
 
A wannabe audiophile... my search is over for best bang for my buck in headphone DAC/amp...

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