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When did you break the illusion of more expense is better? Did ASR help ;)

When I started PA and had multiple units of the same dac/amp/speaker that made comparative testing much more straightforward and meeting ‘proper’ engineers who pointed out the BS that I had previously ( to my great shame) completely believed.
Keith
 
DVDdoug said:
But I DID think that separates were better than receivers and I believed that the golden-ear audiophiles were hearing things that I couldn't.

I've always been a "picky listener" and I cared more about sound than most people and that lead me to believe that my hearing was better than average. The "snap", "crackle" and "pop" on records didn't seem to bother most people but it annoyed me. ...It didn't seem to bother audiophiles that much either.

I was also a bit of a "snob" about lossless audio in the early MP3 days. I'd heard a lot of poor-quality MP3s plus I just couldn't believe it was possible to get good sound while throwing-away 70% or more of the file! But, now I realize how difficult (or impossible) it is to hear the difference between the uncompressed original and an MP3 copy. And, MP3 is WAY better than "scratchy vinyl".
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They still believe they can :D

The vinyl snap, crackle and pop is part of it. It adds to the experience in a way if you’re a fan, it doesn’t really take anything away from the music. I quite like listening to records myself, especially the old full analogue recorded ones, the new ones are mostly recorded in digital first anyway, why not keep it all digital. But it's just another way to listen to music, and makes a novel change now and then.

With the MP3 thing you can hear subtle differences in sound quality I think if they are played side by side and listened closely with good speakers or headphones. The uncompressed is usually identifiable, the thing is though, it’s not as pronounced as you’d expect if you just start listening to it in isolation. And you are certainly not saying, oh I wish I was listening to the uncompressed version of this. It’s just not that much of a difference to stand out in any form. Obviously when you start playing with lower and lower bitrates and getting smaller file sizes and higher compression, then you can hear it more but again in isolation is more than perfectly acceptable most of the time. And the conveniences and low noise floor in comparison with vinyl is obviously much better. It’s nice listening to a bit of pure analogue though, even with its impurities and idiosyncrasies ;)
 
DSJR said:
I totally disagree. The bloody things were NEVER intended for high fidelity reproduction as such (this from one of the design team)! The main intent was to show distortion and hisssss in an outside broadcast van and they did that very well indeed at the time before stereo and a shielded speaker was required either side of the CRT video monitor. The domestic ones weren't as 'true' as the BBC-only 'centre-line' versions (XLR sockets on the back originally) and were bought as they were so tiny. Even then, the Spendor SA1 when new were a far more pleasant and speech-accurate listen and years later, the Harbeth P3 in original form, showed how beffuddled the LS3/5A was in terms of imaging (current P3ESR-XDs go a lot louder too before plopping out while still being low colouration on speech and cymbal-work).
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Yes which is exactly why they are a great example to use. People absolutely love them for hifi and are many audiophiles endgame speakers for which is basically a very basic designed speaker, apart from the development that went into that crossover of course. Just shows how simple hi-fi can be.
 
I've always been value-oriented in choosing things to buy and use. I like high quality, low cost, and we live in an age where this is possible. Buying many things used (cars, clothes, equipment) certainly helps.
 
Joe Smith said:
I've always been value-oriented in choosing things to buy and use. I like high quality, low cost, and we live in an age where this is possible. Buying many things used (cars, clothes, equipment) certainly helps.
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Internet helps with that. But the high streets shops are the ones who suffer. Things move on.
 
Westsounds said:
Yes which is exactly why they are a great example to use. People absolutely love them for hifi and are many audiophiles endgame speakers for which is basically a very basic designed speaker, apart from the development that went into that crossover of course. Just shows how simple hi-fi can be.
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I HATE the effin' things and always have, as they usually bass-plop, screech and spit their way through live broadcasts (as designed) and female vocals are a huge no-no on most samples I assure you (I did know the original centre-line BBC examples too back then, before KEF screwed up the B110 main driver in the mid 80s, necessitating a redesign! They also cost the taxpayer a LOT of money to design back then.

Nah, if I want tiny passive boxes of that price, it's Harbeth every time - and that's ignoring the baby Neumanns and Genelecs of this world, which are so much cheaper and fully active to boot! I doubt I'll ever hear them now, but Harbeth themselves have poured a lot of reasearch, blood-sweat and no doubt tears, into the new NLE1 actives at a mere three grand the pair. I'm sure these would show just how far baby-box designs have come in fifty or more years...
 
At least here (Poland), the high street shops are slowly becoming extinct, trade is "fleeing" either online or into the suburbs, due to skyrocketing rent levels and scarce parking spots for potential customers.
 
DSJR said:
I HATE the effin' things and always have, as they usually bass-plop, screech and spit their way through live broadcasts (as designed) and female vocals are a huge no-no on most samples I assure you (I did know the original centre-line BBC examples too back then, before KEF screwed up the B110 main driver in the mid 80s, necessitating a redesign! They also cost the taxpayer a LOT of money to design back then.

Nah, if I want tiny passive boxes of that price, it's Harbeth every time - and that's ignoring the baby Neumanns and Genelecs of this world, which are so much cheaper and fully active to boot! I doubt I'll ever hear them now, but Harbeth themselves have poured a lot of reasearch, blood-sweat and no doubt tears, into the new NLE1 actives at a mere three grand the pair. I'm sure these would show just how far baby-box designs have come in fifty or more years...
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They’re all overpriced if you ask me, LS3/5A particularly so, I actually like them though, on the right amplifier they can sound really nice to listen to, but the cost of these little things is just nonsensical. Theres plenty of pint size speakers about that are just as good. If you’re a golden ear audiophile mind only they will do. They have ‘a sound’ and only that sound will do for them. Well shell out for them then you idiots.
 
DSJR said:
Nah, if I want tiny passive boxes of that price, it's Harbeth every time
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The Harbeth P3 is the only Harbeth model I’ve never heard. In fact, I’ve never heard the original LS3/5 either.

But you’d have to pry my Spendor s3/5s (circa 2,000 or so) from my cold, dead hands.
Despite all the loudspeakers I’ve owned, every time I throw these into them system, I find them magical. Especially paired with my cj tubes, they might be, in some respects, the most human sounding speaker for voices I’ve had.
 
I've found it almost impossible to completely unbelieve this myth.
 
ASR helped A LOT.

I bought some generic brand high-quality USB/Toslink/XLR/Power cables, replaced all my old snake oil “Hi-Fi” cables, sold them to some willing buyers (oops), saved tons of money, which actually gives me better (at least same) sounding devices with less money.

It's crazy to think that there's basically no correlation between price and performance in the Hi-Fi market, I used to think that higher price must mean better, how foolish…

Also, this gives me a “bad habit”, I refuse to buy any device without seeing third-party measurements first nowadays, I don't trust my own ears anymore…:facepalm:
 
I suppose in the days of Apogee ribbons and Krell amps, the money HAD to be spent on the amp to get the 1 - 2 ohm driving ability, as a large power supply and heatsinking was needed - I suspect the whole Class A business was a selling point more than anything else.

I'm glad that ASR exists for many reasons, one being the testing of seriously good active speakers costing relatively little in high-end terms (KH420s compared to - in the UK - Linn or Naim powered Kudos Titan actives, the whole costing several times more at least depending on the Naim upgrade ladder 'rung' one is on).
 
Westsounds said:
As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs.
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Never. These things cost 6x what I paid for my first car :)

IMG_4039.jpg


At least the "hi-fi" furniture was cheap...
 
artishard116 said:
Never. These things cost 6x what I paid for my first car :)

View attachment 466484

At least the "hi-fi" furniture was cheap...
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Nice setup
GeekyBastard said:
ASR helped A LOT.

I bought some generic brand high-quality USB/Toslink/XLR/Power cables, replaced all my old snake oil “Hi-Fi” cables, sold them to some willing buyers (oops), saved tons of money, which actually gives me better (at least same) sounding devices with less money.

It's crazy to think that there's basically no correlation between price and performance in the Hi-Fi market, I used to think that higher price must mean better, how foolish…

Also, this gives me a “bad habit”, I refuse to buy any device without seeing third-party measurements first nowadays, I don't trust my own ears anymore…:facepalm:
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Love it
 
Westsounds said:
As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs. But for years you chased it, upgrade-itis, lusted after gear and chased false promises or suggestive information.

DACs for example can only get to a quality where your ears or measurement instruments can't differentiate, and it then becomes a personal preference or nuance in sound and effect you like. But the biggest factor probably being cost has no relation to ultimate quality. It usually cost more for better materials granted but not sound quality.

This isn't rocket science or magical mystics being generated it's basic consumer electronics. Would you agree?

Any factors that helped with your enlightenment, ASR perhaps, or owing infinite amounts of gear going around in circles?
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For everything other than speakers fairly quickly since I became active on ASR. Mainly regarding DACs. Amps, it fits pretty well with the exception that there should be a correlation between amp power and price. And having a sufficiently powerful amp that is not driven into clipping is better than a low powered one.

Speakers, it seems to be the wild west regarding finding any price-performance relationship. Okay, the higher the SPL (while at the same time maintaining relatively low distortion) the higher the price. There may be a correlation there.

Conclusion: Good loud (amp/speakers)= expensive, that is.

I was hell bent on switching from Spotify to some lossless streaming provider a few years ago when I, and many with me, cursed Spotify for not coming with their lossless as they promised. But that irritation blew away over time, especially when I realized that I most likely would not hear any difference.

The good thing about ASR is that from time to time tests pop up where you can test. Do you need to spend money on preamplifiers and/or amplifiers with incredibly high S/N? Well...:

audiosciencereview.com

Audibility thresholds of S/N - signal to noise - test

SOTA electronic devices like DACs, preamplifiers and amplifiers have now incredibly high S/N ratio. The limiting factors are in fact S/N of recordings and ambient noise in a listening room. Would you like to check how much S/N you can reliably hear in your listening conditions? Below is a link...
audiosciencereview.com audiosciencereview.com
 
Hi

No longer do I believe that Mo'h Expensive= Mo'h Better. ASR is the culprit :).. Awaken a different view about many things and not only audio. What was just a subliminal doubt became full blown suspicion/interrogation. And it has impacted my Life, Yes. For the better
 
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