When did you break the illusion of more expense is better? Did ASR help ;)

[Westsounds]

As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs. But for years you chased it, upgrade-itis, lusted after gear and chased false promises or suggestive information.

DACs for example can only get to a quality where your ears or measurement instruments can't differentiate, and it then becomes a personal preference or nuance in sound and effect you like. But the biggest factor probably being cost has no relation to ultimate quality. It usually cost more for better materials granted but not sound quality.

This isn't rocket science or magical mystics being generated it's basic consumer electronics. Would you agree?

Any factors that helped with your enlightenment, ASR perhaps, or owing infinite amounts of gear going around in circles?

 

[MattHooper]

I was always pretty sceptical so I don’t think I ever thought “ more expensive equals better.”
It was always simply about when I liked and was willing to pay for.

I have some very old, cheap Thiel 02 speakers that I’ve owned for decades and like better than the majority of loudspeakers I’ve heard at any price. They just have a certain appeal to me.

On the other hand, I also currently own the most expensive speakers I ever purchased.
But I’m quite aware that some of that money has gone to the aesthetics, the very nice fit and finish of the speaker. And also that strictly speaking, technically better performance could’ve been had for significantly less money. But I like the way they look and I like the particular way they sound, and that’s why they were worth it for me.

 

[MCH]

More the opposite. At ASR I have learnt that to fill a large room with loud quality sound is much more expensive I've ever thought :-/

 

[IngMishael]

As title suggests when did you come to realise that it's not about the badge, or how much it costs. But for years you chased it, upgrade-itis, lusted after gear and chased false promises or suggestive information.

DACs for example can only get to a quality where your ears or measurement instruments can't differentiate, and it then becomes a personal preference or nuance in sound and effect you like. But the biggest factor probably being cost has no relation to ultimate quality. It usually cost more for better materials granted but not sound quality.

This isn't rocket science or magical mystics being generated it's basic consumer electronics. Would you agree?

Any factors that helped with your enlightenment, ASR perhaps, or owing infinite amounts of gear going around in circles?

Going to CANJAM in 2019, 2023 and 2024 did that for IEM/Headphones

And going to Axpona, High End Munich in 2024, 2025 did that for speakers

Also being acquaintances with a big audio shop where I stay means I get to try things without the stain of forum shilling and bias. Less to do with ASR

 

[Westsounds]

That's the thing with speakers, the technology hasn't changed. Manufacturing processes have improved sure but it's still the same principle. And quite frankly most of the best sounding speakers have already been made. The LS3/5A a 50 year old design still sets the bar for how a small speaker should sound for vocal reproduction. The prices have gone silly but that's another story, it should never cost two and a half grand for a bookshelf speaker, it's a tiny wooden box, ok it's years of R&D but come on. And there are probably better drive units now anyway, which cost a small fraction. But people still pay it to have the BBC badge

I was always pretty sceptical so I don’t think I ever thought “ more expensive equals better.”
It was always simply about when I liked and was willing to pay for.

I have some very old, cheap Thiel 02 speakers that I’ve owned for decades and like better than the majority of loudspeakers I’ve heard at any price. They just have a certain appeal to me.

On the other hand, I also currently own the most expensive speakers I ever purchased.
But I’m quite aware that some of that money has gone to the aesthetics, the very nice fit and finish of the speaker. And also that strictly speaking, technically better performance could’ve been had for significantly less money. But I like the way they look and I like the particular way they sound, and that’s why they were worth it for me.

 

[Speedskater]

About the time of:
a) The Audio Critic magazine with Peter Aczel (RIP)
b) AB/X testing with Arny Krueger (RIP) and David Carlstrom.

 

[Selkirks]

When I swapped between a little Topping unit and my McIntosh + tube amps. I kept an open mind and couldn't justify the price difference, even if I lost green lights and tube glow.

 

[Westsounds]

b) AB/X testing with Arny Krueger (RIP) and David Carlstrom.

Was that the one with the same speakers, and cheap system on the wooden chair hidden along with the more 'higher end gear' ABX. If it was the same I loved discovering that years ago, certainly a pivotal point for me too. If it's the one I'm thinking of it has to be one of the greatest influential Hi-Fi articles ever written, and it was a light bulb moment for sure. I guess I always wanted to know the truth, I'm that kind of person, but I've subsequently built on that over the years as well. ASR has been a great source of information for me too. And now youtube skeptics and 'some' down to earth reviewers / influencers or whatever have made it possible to completely dispell the myths really. Long gone are the days where I used to hang on the many magazine reviewers every word. A lot of it being just fantasy and flamboyant use of words, but I did used to enjoy it as a part of the hobby I suppose.

When I swapped between a little Topping unit and my McIntosh + tube amps. I kept an open mind and couldn't justify the price difference, even if I lost green lights and tube glow.

Been there too. You're left scratching your head thinking, what am I paying for here

Even fooled myself once with a very cheap DAC and a substantially more expensive one. Both were connected and both sounded great BTW but I forgot which was on which input. Guess what blind tested the cheapy to my brain sounded like it had to be the high end one. Followed the cables and to my amazement it was the cheap one sounded better to me. As much as i love playing with gear I thought I'm wasn't my time here

And another time with 100x cost speaker cable. But not to worry I moved the ridiculously expensive stuff on to another unaware buyer I even did a very bad connection job on the wires because it broke. But cosmeticly it looked mint. The new flushed buyer was still overawed with their new fangled reference speaker wire, and completely unaware of the naff connection Fools and thier money. At least the truth is out there, if you are prepared to look.

 

[respice finem]

I knew before discovering ASR for me, that diminishing returns are a fact.
That said, I was surprised to see the total "decoupling" of price vs. measured performance, regarding headphones and IEM.
And, that relative newcomers, regardless of price, are often better than the "establishment".

 

[Timcognito]

I think more it is that objective measurement revealed value but also started a space race for bang the buck products. And still as others have said, now we have room correction, add on DACs, multiple subs, etc adding cost but slowly snake oil is leaving the scene. Those old consumer grade Yamaha's are still testing pretty good.

 

[Godataloss]

The first time I put on headphones 40+ years ago. I think that was prior to ASR

 

[DVDdoug]

I never really thought so... I was in high school and college in the 1970's and I liked the big Pioneer (etc.) speakers more than the exotic European stuff.

But I DID think that separates were better than receivers and I believed that the golden-ear audiophiles were hearing things that I couldn't.

I've always been a "picky listener" and I cared more about sound than most people and that lead me to believe that my hearing was better than average. The "snap", "crackle" and "pop" on records didn't seem to bother most people but it annoyed me. ...It didn't seem to bother audiophiles that much either.

I was also a bit of a "snob" about lossless audio in the early MP3 days. I'd heard a lot of poor-quality MP3s plus I just couldn't believe it was possible to get good sound while throwing-away 70% or more of the file! But, now I realize how difficult (or impossible) it is to hear the difference between the uncompressed original and an MP3 copy. And, MP3 is WAY better than "scratchy vinyl".

 

[respice finem]

...The "snap", "crackle" and "pop" on records didn't seem to bother most people but it annoyed me...

Same here. My biggest "wow moment" in audio was hearing a CD for the first time.
And then I understood, the press is largely spreading BS (they initially tried to diss everything digital very hard).

 

[Timcognito]

(they initially tried to diss everything digital very hard).

Initially? Check out vinyl sales numbers.

 

[Davey]

What if you never had the illusion to being with?

ASR is hardly the illusion breaker it thinks it is. Many similar sources of information have come before this.
But, if audio-types have their eyes closed..........

 

[Owl]

I think most kids just want the album cover, they toss the record and listen to music with there cell phone.

 

[Somafunk]

Never really been an issue of expensive gear for myself, I’ve always swam in the shallow end of the pool and until 5 years ago when I bought my setup in signature I was perfectly happy with £500 of KRK monitors and KRK sub plugged into my Mac with a cheap Native Instruments audio interface

 

[Taiga]

After college, during my first visits to a variety of “high end” stereo stores where they spoke to me in techno-gibberish instead of plain language. I knew nothing about stereo systems, but knew I was being conned.

Some years later, I revisited a high end audio store when shopping for my first CD player. I wanted to see if they could beat the price of an Onkyo from a non-high end store. They couldn’t, but the salesman told me that the JVC had superior sound and played them side-by-side to prove it. Wow. The JVC sounded better because he was deceptively playing it through much better speakers. I asked if he could play them both through the same speakers and he said “no”, he couldn’t change the wiring.

After all these years, it was very refreshing to find ASR among the throngs of nonsense audio sites on the internet.

 

[Westsounds]

I think more it is that objective measurement revealed value but also started a space race for bang the buck products. And still as others have said, now we have room correction, add on DACs, multiple subs, etc adding cost but slowly snake oil is leaving the scene. Those old consumer grade Yamaha's are still testing pretty good.

Another great point, room correction, DSP and digital EQ is just changing the game in this system / room suiting as an audiophile artform. It’s pretty easy these days to make any well designed system and component sound how you want, within their limits obviously.

The first time I put on headphones 40+ years ago. I think that was prior to ASR

I’m intrigued, why the headphones exactly. What was it about them?

 

[DSJR]

The LS3/5A a 50 year old design still sets the bar for how a small speaker should sound for vocal reproduction.

I totally disagree. The bloody things were NEVER intended for high fidelity reproduction as such (this from one of the design team)! The main intent was to show distortion and hisssss in an outside broadcast van and they did that very well indeed at the time before stereo and a shielded speaker was required either side of the CRT video monitor. The domestic ones weren't as 'true' as the BBC-only 'centre-line' versions (XLR sockets on the back originally) and were bought as they were so tiny. Even then, the Spendor SA1 when new were a far more pleasant and speech-accurate listen and years later, the Harbeth P3 in original form, showed how beffuddled the LS3/5A was in terms of imaging (current P3ESR-XDs go a lot louder too before plopping out while still being low colouration on speech and cymbal-work).