When 12 Gauge Wire is Not 12 Gauge

[krabapple]

The parameters that affect speaker wire sound aren't mysterious: typically wire gauge and length. Either or both have to be quite different between A and B wires to make an audible difference.

So, after a few beers, you disconnected a normal speaker (not one built for biwiring) from its original +/- wire (A) and connected a second +/- wire (B) to the amp's speakers outs for that channel. Then you (or helper) touched the speaker posts with the +/- strands of either A or B while playing music on the system, listening for differences.

Do I have that right?

If so could you describe the gauge and length of the two wires you used? I gather B was 'old lamp wire'?

 

[Dumu]

Original wire was some old "hifi"-cable (probably 2x1mm2) routed thru a wall and PITA to change. We connected another cable (think it was 2x2.5mm2) in parallel to the original to amplifier +/-. So both cables connected to amp. Then while playing music we touched the speaker terminals (that had the original cable connected) with the new cable. (+&- ends at the same time) in rapid succession. What it did was create a small stutter to the sound as the volume changed a small amount every time the new cable was added to the circuit. If we would have just tried switching the cables, none of us could've detected the difference. But when we were able to hear the effect in real time, it was audible.

 

[krabapple]

When you touch a second cable to speaker posts that already have a cable attached, you are effectively creating a larger-gauge cable...the composite of both cables.

 

[Dumu]

Correct. And if you already have big enough cable then there is no audible effect to this test. You only hear the volume changes if you would benefit from larger gauge. By rapidly tapping the effect is more noticable than just on/off. Altho if the effect is large enough then you probably would hear the first momen you touch terminals with second cable.

 

[krabapple]

Please see Amir's early posts in this thread. In a normal sized room, meaning a wire run of 'reasonable' length (<=~22 ft), 12g is not going to color the sound.

For wire <12g, the run length become increasingly important as the gauge shrinks. You won't necessarily hear a difference just because the gauge is different.

You still haven't said what gauges and lengths were being used.

 

[Dumu]

Original wire was some old "hifi"-cable (probably 2x1mm2) routed thru a wall and PITA to change. We connected another cable (think it was 2x2.5mm2) in parallel to the original to amplifier +/-.

1mm2 is maybe something like 18 US gauge and 2.5mm2 close to 14 I think. If I would guess the length could have been a little over 10 meters. It was years ago so I could be wrong about the details.

In a normal sized room, meaning a wire run of 'reasonable' length (<=~22 ft), 12g is not going to color the sound.

And this was the point we wanted to test out. We knew the original cable was on the small side and wanted to know if bigger cable would be beneficial. Since we didn't have any special tools, this was an easy way to test if it would be worth the time and money to replace the cables. As it was, we could notice an improvement, albeit so small that it probably did nothing more than give peace of mind. We could've just used the installation wire separately, but by the time we would've been done switching the cables, none us could've said if it was any louder than before.

 

[absolutehifi]

Hi Amir, thank you for the article. I am very interested in the resistance data that you measured. Unfortunately, all the figures show only the file names. Is there anyway you could share the figures and tables? Thank you!

 

[Sal1950]

Hi Amir, thank you for the article. I am very interested in the resistance data that you measured. Unfortunately, all the figures show only the file names. Is there anyway you could share the figures and tables? Thank you!

Welcome to ASR @absolutehifi !
The links are no longer active in that nearly 10 yo post, sorry.
Maybe if time allows and he still has the files, they can be updated.
Fingers Crossed
Ciao

 

[amirm]

Oh no! Those graphs were on a photo sharing site which I stopped using a few years ago. As mentioned by Sal, let me see if I can find the originals....

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't know about the links but the important thing is that wire resistance should be much-less than speaker impedance (both are Ohms).

The rule-of-thumb is that wire resistance should be 1/8th (or less) of speaker impedance. (Wire Resistance Chart) i.e. 16AWG copper wire has 4 Ohms of resistance per 1000 feet = 0.4 Ohms per 100 feet.

Don't forget that there are 2 speaker wires and it's "round trip" so double the actual distance to the speaker.

 

[amirm]

Found the two key tables and updated the OP with it.

 

[Zooqu1ko]

They were also available on archive.org. For some reason, I had to shift-reload the first page of this thread to show the images.

 

[amirm]

Hacked in a few pictures as well.

 

[Sal1950]

Found the two key tables and updated the OP with it.

Kool, Thanks.
Can you believe it. we're only a few weeks away from a 10 year anniversary ?
IMHO ASR has really changed the face of Audio

 

[amirm]

They were also available on archive.org.

Oh. I am used to them only archiving text. Next time I will look there to find them....

 

[tineared]

So Best Buy 12AWG speaker wire is slightly better than a coat hanger
Good to know...

 

[olds1959special]

I used cheap no name slightly oxidized 12AWG wire from my local hardware store. If I upgrade to Canare wires will I actually hear a difference?

My amps don't take 12AWG bare wire so I have to use flex pin banana plugs to make it work. If I use 14AWG will it affect the sound? I'm bi-wiring my speakers with four mono amps.

 

[somebodyelse]

You're missing some important info: Cable length? Speaker impedance curve?

 

[Sal1950]

I used cheap no name slightly oxidized 12AWG wire from my local hardware store. If I upgrade to Canare wires will I actually hear a difference?

Very unlikely. Unless the oxidation is so sever it's causing high resistance, sonically just about any 12lg wire will be just fine.

My amps don't take 12AWG bare wire so I have to use flex pin banana plugs to make it work.

Few do, the most std style have a hole at 90degree to the banana hole. If you can even get 12g wire into that hole, tightening down the knob shears wires and just sucks in general. Use good banana's and you'll be all set.

If I use 14AWG will it affect the sound? I'm bi-wiring my speakers with four mono amps.

In most cases 14g will be just fine unless they have to be over 50 feet long.

 

[olds1959special]

You're missing some important info: Cable length? Speaker impedance curve?

JBL L890’s. The cables are around 10 feet or less