What's the best version of fleetwood macs rumours album?

[Thomas savage]

Yes and the only adequate solution is to find a better recording, hence this thread!

 

[TBone]

Well Bob, I guess I need a better playback system as mine seems to show up mastering bad practice and seems to show all the little differences between recordings when a really good system would make everything sound the same.

My system is brutal when it comes to bad recordings. The more it's been refined, the more brutal its become.

For shits & giggles, once in a while, when a new audiophile acquaintance visits for a listen; I brag & braggggg about how "great" my system sounds for at least the first 30 minutes. Once his audiophile expectations have been adequately lifted towards the heavens, I then proceed to spin my worst sounding CD, loud, then air-guitar all thru the song. Once the torture stops (for both of us); I proudly claim ... "told ya".

Yeah, I know, not the same without graphs ...

 

[Thomas savage]

...

 

[TBone]

...

well, other than my silly anti-audiophile saga above, not certain how else I'd use my most crappy recordings ...

any suggestions?

 

[Thomas savage]

I consider it my civic duty to destroy them

My 2013 copy of this album has suffered a devastating impact event

Not because I was angry but because we don't want these crap copies being found and played by others.


Nuke them from orbit.. It's the only way to be sure

 

[Thomas savage]

 

[TBone]

maybe build a fire, sing a couple of songs ...

 

[Thomas savage]

maybe build a fire, sing a couple of songs ...

Why not...,

Least we forget the obligatory sing song...,

 

[TBone]

Those Star Trek movies are second hand news, just like old dreams, never going back again, but don't stop posting em links, go your own way, sing like a songbird and become part of the chain. I don't want to know ...

 

[TBone]

I have used the Hoffman/Gray LP as a spectral reference to EQ my favorite digital sources. As I said before, the one CD which was most faithful to the original LP is the Sanyo Japan. It's murky and laid-back, but it sounds most like the original.

That particular Sanyo definitely is on my wish list.

From what I've read, it was recorded "murky and laid-back". Supposedly, after many complaints, they decided to goose the later re-issues (all differently, complicating provenance issues further) using varying song splices, added compression, eq and reverb.

The 3010-2 West German version seems to be made from a different tape (just like some LPs were). I recall that it has the 'wrong' versions of all 3 songs above, but it still sounds pretty good...less murky than the Sanyo Japan. There seems to have been a "secret remaster" which may have the same 3010-2 catalog number, but it may have had some reverb added. It should be easy to spot if you compare to any other version. I remember noticing it distinctly on "Oh Daddy."

Just listened to each Oh Daddy version my crappy computer speakers; it sounds like the 3010 does have more reverb, but it's also much louder, so difficult to say.

It's a shame that this album has never received a proper CD version. The 2004/2013 deluxe versions (digitally identical) are from the master tapes, but are very compressed and poorly EQ'd. I don't mind some compression and reasonable limiting, but on those CDs, there's enough to ruin the effect of the percussion. The same goes for the stereo version on the old DVD-A. It sucks because Fleetwood Mac and Tusk both have fantastic sounding digital versions. Maybe someday!

It's a shame ... had a sliver-of-hope SH/KG would cut an equivalent digital version after their LP, but ...

 

[ceedee]

S.Hoffman ...

I had not seen that quote of Hoffman's. It doesn't surprise me that he would say that, but I don't believe him. On the 1977 first-pressing edition of this album I have, "Gold Dust Woman" fades in. I'm sure the oxide was still on the tape in 1977!

Instead of simply owning up to making an "artistic decision" on leaving the count-in and not fading the song in (or out), he has to make it seem like Fleetwood Mac always wanted it that way, and only he, Steve Hoffman, could finally master the album in its originally-intended glory. Since he complains that other mastering engineers "mess with history" by changing things, it's only expected that some would have called him out for doing the same thing on his mastering of this album.

But, as I said, the Hoffman/Gray 45 RPM pressing from 2011 is the best I've heard this album sound. I think "Gold Dust Woman" sounds better and flows better with the fade in, but it doesn't matter that much. I sure hope someone does a good digital version before everyone who cares about this album is DEAD!

From what I've read, it was recorded "murky and laid-back".

That's what I've read as well. From Ken Callait's account in his book about making the album, it sounds like the engineers were snorting as much coke as the band. It may have sounded perfect to them, but a little dull to us!

 

[TBone]

I had not seen that quote of Hoffman's. It doesn't surprise me that he would say that, but I don't believe him. On the 1977 first-pressing edition of this album I have, "Gold Dust Woman" fades in. I'm sure the oxide was still on the tape in 1977!

3010-2 (32xd-350) Gold Dust Woman, dated well prior to SH version, I'm assuming it's also a fade-up version ...

3010 rec. much hotter, w/cold-start ...

 

[ceedee]

Yes, there was a CD version or two with the cold start (though, I don't believe it had the count-in). It was also a cold start on the DVD-A but faded-up on the 2004/2013 deluxe remaster.

 

[TBone]

Supposedly different endings also?

 

[ceedee]

Yes, three different endings. I'm entirely sure which is which on every CD, unfortunately. I believe the Sanyo CD matches the original pressing, with the "loud howling" ending -- same as Hoffman LP. The WG Target CD has the "glass break" ending with much quieter howling.

 

[Sal1950]

First listene to the Rumors I purchased off ebay.
Warner Bros. 3010-2, D 124025, Mfd. for BMG Direct
Overall a very nice master, the midrange and vocals I find to be cleaner and more detailed than most from that era.
Bass is soft but reasonable well defined, on cuts like Gold Dust Woman the kick drum could have more drive but does have good detail.
I find the top just a bit etched, the result of the cheap op amp consoles or mics, not the FR balance?
Just my poor subjective opinion listening on my Sennheiser HD650 cans.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Rumours / Artist: Fleetwood Mac
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Title [codec]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -0.00 dB -16.38 dB 2:53 01 - Second Hand News [flac]
DR15 -0.00 dB -17.76 dB 4:16 02 - Dreams [flac]
DR14 -0.00 dB -17.47 dB 2:14 03 - Never Going Back Again [flac]
DR13 -0.00 dB -14.73 dB 3:12 04 - Don't Stop [flac]
DR12 -0.00 dB -14.35 dB 3:39 05 - Go Your Own Way [flac]
DR14 -2.85 dB -23.69 dB 3:23 06 - Songbird [flac]
DR14 -0.00 dB -19.44 dB 4:29 07 - The Chain [flac]
DR13 -0.00 dB -16.79 dB 3:33 08 - You Make Loving Fun [flac]
DR15 -0.00 dB -17.56 dB 3:14 09 - I Don't Want To Know [flac]
DR17 -0.00 dB -21.00 dB 3:56 10 - Oh Daddy [flac]
DR14 -0.00 dB -16.97 dB 5:01 11 - Gold Dust Woman [flac]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of files: 11
Official DR value: DR14

Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
Average bitrate: 842kbs
Bits per sample: 16 bit

Dr14 T.meter 1.0.16
==============================================================================================

 

[TBone]

strange, your 3010-2 shares little in common with my 3010-2 (32xd-350) but appears identical to my 3010 in DR but with the peaks raised +0.20dB. No wonder Rumours has such messy provenance issues.

if your 3010-2 shares the same master as my canadian 3010, yours may also share its rising top-end and added reverb, hence the bit etched?

 

[Sal1950]

strange, your 3010-2 shares little in common with my 3010-2 (32xd-350) but appears identical to my 3010 in DR but with the peaks raised +0.20dB. No wonder Rumours has such messy provenance issues.

if your 3010-2 shares the same master as my canadian 3010, yours may also share its rising top-end and added reverb, hence the bit etched?

Without comparing it's hard to say but this master does use quite a bit of reverb. Kind of like a attempt to add a "hall or live" sound, so maybe?
And I'll make a slight edit after listening thru another time, plus a couple more cuts in detail. I think I may have been a victim of expect bias from Thomas's complain on the bass, I'm now of the opinion it's just fine, I like it, no need for the Loudness button.

 

[TBone]

beware the Thomas's influence ...

Don't remember having a lack of bass with this particular recording, always remember the bass being a bit warm, but perhaps every system/room/pressing reads differently.

Been a while, so will give both 3010 and 3010-2 a re-listen tonight.

 

[Sal1950]

Don't remember having a lack of bass with this particular recording, always remember the bass being a bit warm, but perhaps every system/room/pressing reads differently.

Don't put too much stock in anything I have to say, I've been told over and over for years that either my ears or gear are faulty, and probably both. LOL