What's the best passive (and preferably floorstanding) speaker one can find for $2,500 or less?

[6speed]

Sierra-2
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2meas.html

BMR Philarharmonitor
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/BMR Philharmonitor.html

I have no experience with Ascend, but the Sierra measurements look pretty good; the designer seems to know what he is doing, unlike many of the speakers in my local hifi stores. Flat on axis, off axis directivity increases smoothly and shows no diffraction problems, clean ETC, benign impedance and phase, no resonances in CSD. The measurements indicate a speaker that should sound very natural. The only thing missing is distortion graphs and crossover reverse null / phase tracking, but I would be confused and disappointed if they did not offer the detail I would be after.

I know the owner of Philharmonic Audio and he is definitely not in the speaker business to make money. All of his designs are going to be among the best purchases you can make for the money. What is unfortunate is the fact that he is responsible for 100 or so one off designs that all sound and measure incredibly well, and are uncredited so there is not much of a resume to present on the Philharmonic site. Here is a measurement I made validating crossovers he designed for my brother in law's 2way floorstanders:

 

[jasonq997]

My understanding is that Dennis Murphy (the owner of Philharmonic) had his hand in a number of the Salk Sound designs.

 

[Roen]

And therein lies the problem with the speaker industry.

Well-executed designers like Dennis Murphy and David Fabrikant are unheard of, but everyone goes with Klipsch / Monitor Audio / KEF / Revel / Paradigm / Random Popular Brand X.

Luckily the Headphone DAC / Amp industry has somewhat moved away from this phenomena, perhaps Speakers will as well.

I am very happy with my Ascend / Rythmik 5.1.2 setup. Begrudgingly, I'm using Martin Logan Dolby Atmos speakers, but once I get a Sony A9F, out of necessity, it will become my centre channel, the Sierra Luna's, currently in surround, will move to Front Height, and I'll pick up a B-Stock Sierra-2 to pair with the existing Sierra-2 in my centre position to take the place of the surrounds.

 

[Darwin]

I've listened to some Bronzes and asked my friend "and you paid how much for these?"
For that price, you could have an Ascend Sierra Tower without the RAAL tweeter or some Salk SongTowers.
This being said, I don't believe Monitor Audio offers a good value proposition relative to other available options, but YMMV.

Which Bronze, there are three of them, and which versions of Bronze and he was talking about Silvers anyway.
Why do you say Monitor Audio does not offer a value proposition relative to the others you mention?

 

[Roen]

Which Bronze, there are three of them, and which versions of Bronze and he was talking about Silvers anyway.
Why do you say Monitor Audio does not offer a value proposition relative to the others you mention?

Price vs Sound Quality.

Bronze 1 or 2 are around $300 / pr, and this is after heavy discounting.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/3007574-ascend-cbm-170-se.html#post56928594

Silver 300's at 2K a pair, you can go either of the other two brands (Ascend / Salk) I previously mentioned and enjoy clearer, more accurate, less veiled sound for the same price. Chane is or has come out with a floorstander as well (https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/A5.4) and is very well known for punching way above its price tag, even in the ID world. The Chane A2.4 finished second next to the Sierra-2 in a <$1500 bookshelf shootout, and those are $560 / pr.

With the advent of the internet, ID brands offer a huge value proposition gain because they don't spend money on marketing or distribution. That savings is passed on to you.

Don't take my word for it. Most ID brands offer free auditions via a return policy.

 

[6speed]

It's good to see XBL2 continuing to live on, and this has to be the least expensive implementation of it as far as complete products go.

 

[Darwin]

I've had Chane towers, bookshelves and centers before I decided to get rid of with all the cables, AV receiver etc. They were ok. I had the Chane A3 floorstanders which they no longer make.
As I said I don't think anyone was talking about the Bronze but Silvers. The Bronze 1 and 2 are bookshelf's as well so I don't see why you keep comparing them to floor standers that are also a lot more expensive. The 2's are high rated for their price range which is pretty low.
What do you base your statement on that Ascend and Salk have such specific characteristics that are better than Monitor Audio Silvers? Personal experience? Measurements?
"clearer, more accurate, less veiled sound" is pretty specific.

 

[Roen]

Experience with the Bronze, Klipsch and Ascend, and the price tags at time of purchase.

How would you compare the Chane vs. Monitor Audio?

 

[LightninBoy]

I know the owner of Philharmonic Audio and he is definitely not in the speaker business to make money. All of his designs are going to be among the best purchases you can make for the money. What is unfortunate is the fact that he is responsible for 100 or so one off designs that all sound and measure incredibly well, and are uncredited so there is not much of a resume to present on the Philharmonic site.

I haven't heard of Philharmonic Audio before. The specs are impressive. I wish there were distortion/frequency graphs though as that's where the ribbons tend to struggle. Adding the BMR mid range driver is a really intriguing solution.

 

[MZKM]

I wish there were distortion/frequency graphs though as that's where the ribbons tend to struggle.

Selah makes a similar speaker (uses a more expensive Accuton ceramic midrange and different woofer), they have measurements including harmonic distortion. Salk (who Dennis at Philharmonic worked for and designed many models) also has a similar speaker, that uses an even more expensive RAAL, more expensive Accuton model and a more expensive woofer (plus you get the amazing cabinet finishes).

On the listing for the BMR they provide measurements done by SoundStage/NRC for its far off-axis and shows the LS50’s measurements for the same test and how the BMR is better.

If you just wanted to buy the drivers for the BMR, it would be around $900, so the fact that you also have the cabinet and crossover and sell it for <$1500 shipped for the base model, that’s in an insane value (of course, a company like KEF have far lower production and driver costs due to how large they are, so it’s not a 1:1 comparison, but still).

 

[steve-z]

I’ve been trying to get a great sound from a pair of floor standers in my acoustically tricky living room for about 4 decades and I’ve finally reached my nirvana with a pair of recently acquired Q Acoustics Concept 40s, not only do they sound superb but they look as good as they sound, certainly the best I’ve heard at the price (£1k)

 

[MZKM]

I’ve been trying to get a great sound from a pair of floor standers in my acoustically tricky living room for about 4 decades and I’ve finally reached my nirvana with a pair of recently acquired Q Acoustics Concept 40s, not only do they sound superb but they look as good as they sound, certainly the best I’ve heard at the price (£1k)
View attachment 20462

Q Acoustics makes good gear, my issue with something like the Concept 40 is the bass response, 53Hz for $1000 ain’t nothing to fight home about, my bookshelves (which are transmission-line) get to 45Hz +/-3dB. I do get that having high impedance, high sensitivity, controlled directivty, and nice aesthetics were likely a priority though.

 

[steve-z]

Q Acoustics makes good gear, my issue with something like the Concept 40 is the bass response, 53Hz for $1000 ain’t nothing to fight home about, my bookshelves (which are transmission-line) get to 45Hz +/-3dB. I do get that having high impedance, high sensitivity, controlled directivty, and nice aesthetics were likely a priority though.

Don’t read too much in to the published response, in my living room they are pretty well flat down to 40hz with a gentle roll off down to 34hz where they cut off in my room, they probably would go lower in a bigger room.
Before I bought the 40s I had the larger QA 3050 which although a larger cabinet and bigger bass drivers only went 2hz lower before cutoff, but the 3050s had more bass level in the 40-80hz octave which overpowered the bottom end in my living room, the Concept 40s have a better balance for my musical taste. A friend of mine has the latest QA 3050i’s which I’ve heard in his room and they certainly work well and had a tad more bass control than my original ones had.
Both the Concept 40s and the 3050s are sensitive (90&92db respectively) and easy to drive, they also have a very wide listening window as the tweeters have excellent dispersion characteristics.
https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/q_acoustics_concept_40_loudspeakers_review_test_lores.pdf

http://ecom.armourhome.co.uk/ecom/themes/qacoustics_multi/pdf/qacoustics3050-hificritic.pdf

 

[Roen]

I haven't heard of Philharmonic Audio before. The specs are impressive. I wish there were distortion/frequency graphs though as that's where the ribbons tend to struggle. Adding the BMR mid range driver is a really intriguing solution.

Could you show me documentation on ribbons struggling with distortion / frequency? I've never heard of this issue before and am keenly interested to learn more about ribbons.

 

[GoMrPickles]

Could you show me documentation on ribbons struggling with distortion / frequency? I've never heard of this issue before and am keenly interested to learn more about ribbons.

A Google led me to http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Tweeters_dist-test.htm and http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/standard.html. Interesting?

 

[6speed]

Ribbons (especially the smaller ones) tend to have higher non-linear distortion than the better domes at the same price point...especially at lower frequencies. A touch more 3rd harmonic distortion might give a sharper sound or sparkle you may not object to, but you can cross a lot of domes <2kHz and most ribbons fall apart before then. Where ribbons really shine is with (low) energy storage, but again, the best domes are still competitive.

One of the most interesting new tweeters is a ribbon from Viawave
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/viawave/viawave-rt850
The waterfall looks great, the same or better than I would expect from Seas, Scanspeak, or Satori. However, watch as the farfield HD spectrum goes through the roof as you turn up the voltage. Compare that with a Bliesma (the latest hotrod) or even a Seas 27TDFC, which is still a respectable budget tweeter.

 

[Roen]

So the 8K-10K spike?

 

[Roen]

Ribbons (especially the smaller ones) tend to have higher non-linear distortion than the better domes at the same price point...especially at lower frequencies. A touch more 3rd harmonic distortion might give a sharper sound or sparkle you may not object to, but you can cross a lot of domes <2kHz and most ribbons fall apart before then. Where ribbons really shine is with (low) energy storage, but again, the best domes are still competitive.

One of the most interesting new tweeters is a ribbon from Viawave
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/viawave/viawave-rt850
The waterfall looks great, the same or better than I would expect from Seas, Scanspeak, or Satori. However, watch as the farfield HD spectrum goes through the roof as you turn up the voltage. Compare that with a Bliesma (the latest hotrod) or even a Seas 27TDFC, which is still a respectable budget tweeter.

Example of good domes?

I think a touch more sparkle combined with low energy storage is a key factor in why people praise the detail of ribbons, while not having the fatigue of many other tweeters.

 

[MZKM]

Could you show me documentation on ribbons struggling with distortion / frequency? I've never heard of this issue before and am keenly interested to learn more about ribbons.

For RAAL, they are fine except at 2kHz at 95dB+ levels, but that’s where using them in a 3-way like the BMR comes in handy (I’ve also seen some users put them in a waveguide/horn to boost efficiency to lower distortion.

 

[Roen]

For RAAL, they are fine except at 2kHz at 95dB+ levels, but that’s where using them in a 3-way like the BMR comes in handy (I’ve also seen some users put them in a waveguide/horn to boost efficiency to lower distortion.

What about the 2-way approach that Ascend uses?