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What's so bad about international shipping?
- Thread starter jawbfl
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #22
I fully expect those charges buying internationally, my point is the seller takes no part in that, he already shipped and got paid, the buyer pays those fees to his country and carrier.
The seller charged me for the shipping (the US is very expensive for shipping), the taxes and handling I paid, of course. All in all the price more than doubled whereas I can buy things from Germany and have them shipped for only a few euros shipping cost, or even nothing at all (and obviously no taxes). That is roughly the picture inside the EU, and the same would be true inside the USA. Such high transaction costs are a clear impediment to international trade and to competition.
- Thread Starter
- #24
Buying local is the best definitely, for me buying from the EU is great, since we have the same 20% VAT and I buy without VAT so it comes back to the same price. Shipping is not too bad, you just need to add customs which is generally 2.5% and handling fees (those are the b**ch). From the US, they don't include tax in price so no discounts, shipping is somewhat expensive, the rest is the same.
Most audio brands are in the US, if the product is found in the EU the price is insane so sometimes it's worth getting it from the US especially 2nd hand.
As a former international freight forwarder / customs broker (retired now) personally it's primarily a matter of expense and potential issues compared to limiting sales to domestic US but would depend on the items shipped and value to an extent. Many US folk have no idea of customs formalities either, let alone customs at destination....many have never even crossed a border themselves (which compared to a place like Europe is quite different). Let alone deal with duties/VAT and customs tariff codes and customs regulations.....
It used to be significantly harder and more expensive to export from the US on an individual basis compared to the convenience the big boys like Fedex/UPS offer these days for small package services, too.....via the post office here in the US is something I have no experience in shipping something internationally with as the time for transit and lack of tracking in the past was poor (altho IIRC the prices were quite good compared to typical freight/courier services if you could live with the longer transit and lack of transparency). That's probably been improved upon, might have to ask my PO folk about that one of these days. We (i.e. the US) have some security procedures that hold up shipments from unknown/non-regular shippers a bit but that's more a time delay....and not sure all those security procedures are still in place but I think they are and is mostly a matter of correct documentation that the carriers/forwarders can help with.
Recently I bought an SACD from France that was mailed and it disappeared in the NY Customs Mail facility apparently per tracking and there was no update for well over a month....and I gave up and simply asked for a refund. It's been two more months now and still no disc....who knows what happened to it (and this could well have to do with our orange president's attack on the post office). OTOH I've had mailed discs from several countries without issue, too. Most of that sort of thing won't be held up in US Customs, no real experience in how much mail clears foreign Customs easily in other countries.....just due sheer volume of mail many packages just get waived thru any actual customs clearance depending on the declaration made (which many people put bullshit information like "gift" or "no customs value" instead of the price it was sold at on which may or may not help).
It used to be significantly harder and more expensive to export from the US on an individual basis compared to the convenience the big boys like Fedex/UPS offer these days for small package services, too.....via the post office here in the US is something I have no experience in shipping something internationally with as the time for transit and lack of tracking in the past was poor (altho IIRC the prices were quite good compared to typical freight/courier services if you could live with the longer transit and lack of transparency). That's probably been improved upon, might have to ask my PO folk about that one of these days. We (i.e. the US) have some security procedures that hold up shipments from unknown/non-regular shippers a bit but that's more a time delay....and not sure all those security procedures are still in place but I think they are and is mostly a matter of correct documentation that the carriers/forwarders can help with.
Recently I bought an SACD from France that was mailed and it disappeared in the NY Customs Mail facility apparently per tracking and there was no update for well over a month....and I gave up and simply asked for a refund. It's been two more months now and still no disc....who knows what happened to it (and this could well have to do with our orange president's attack on the post office). OTOH I've had mailed discs from several countries without issue, too. Most of that sort of thing won't be held up in US Customs, no real experience in how much mail clears foreign Customs easily in other countries.....just due sheer volume of mail many packages just get waived thru any actual customs clearance depending on the declaration made (which many people put bullshit information like "gift" or "no customs value" instead of the price it was sold at on which may or may not help).
- Thread Starter
- #26
@Chrispy Thanks for the explanation, if individuals are required to fill customs declaration I understand that will be a deal-breaker for many sellers.
Personally I received many USPS shipments before COVID from businesses and never had to pay customs, I was also shipping and never filled a declaration at least to the US and EU, Morocco have lots of free-trade deals no idea if it could be the reason.
USPS is important to people outside the US as well, being under attacks and budget cuts we might never be able to buy from the US again.
Personally I received many USPS shipments before COVID from businesses and never had to pay customs, I was also shipping and never filled a declaration at least to the US and EU, Morocco have lots of free-trade deals no idea if it could be the reason.
USPS is important to people outside the US as well, being under attacks and budget cuts we might never be able to buy from the US again.
FWIW we have export customs controls/declarations here in the US, that's the declaration I was speaking of that the shipper would need to deal with (as well as some security stuff similar to you declaring you don't have a bomb in your luggage when you fly personally). Generally the importer in each country is ultimately responsible for compliance with their country's import customs/regulations, especially if they are filing that declaration themselves or thru their own customs broker. That import declaration on a door to door transaction may be completed by an agent such as a forwarder/broker/courier-carrier based on the exporting country declaration, tho (and most of the western world uses the harmonized tariff now so that's relatively straightforward), without even contacting the "importer" at destination.
Somewhat depends on terms of sale....on a door to door transaction they'll simply use the export declaration to base the destination import declaration on....and if that violates customs rules in that country should customs dig into it via exam of documentation and/or the shipment itself, it could well be an issue for the shipper and the broker/forwarder/carrier filing the declaration if something's amiss. Traditional freight services may only be up to a given port/facility without Customs clearance whereas the courier style/small package shipments tend to be door to door these days. Honesty is a good policy here as most of the world uses transaction value (i.e. what the goods were actually sold at) rather than "helpful" declarations like "gift" or "no customs value" trying to avoid duties/regulations. Audio gear should generally be straightforward and not have too many other things involved....altho import of certain electronics gear into the US may require an FCC declaration for radio frequency radiation compliance.....
I live in Canada and have received a ton, (seemingly
), of stuff from the USA and other origins. The major disincentive is having to pay a customs brokerage fee and Canadian taxes and, sometime, tariff. Also, delivery times can be long depending on the carrier and service level.That said, small packages sent by mail often evade Canadian customs and the mentioned charges. For larger packages sent by mail, Canada Post charges minimal brokerage. OTOH anything of any size or value sent via FedEx or UPS is, whatever the size or value, will attract all these charges and the brokerage charge can be heavy.
Unfortunately I can no longer recommend shipping stuff from the USA via USPS. USPS has become atrociously slow. As I recall it took over four weeks for my Schiit Freya + to arrive in southern Ontario from California. Most of the time was spent in the device in the hands of a USPS contractor, ironically most of all atthe contractor's warehouse in Vancouver
.To me it was not obvious.
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