What's hot? Which AMP is currently the strongest contender? (brand new, up to $1000 / 850 Euro in EU ).

[jmdesignz2]

Yes it is... it seems I forgot to add the usual 'competent'



Absolutely... Signal quality will be fine.
They will 'sound' good too, but so will the ones that are not considered 'transparent' they just don't measure within the 'considered transparent' performance limits.

In the last 20 years or so I have not encountered a single DAC nor amp (aside from some cheap few $ toys) that sounded bad (as in really broken) unless they were broken or not getting a good signal.

Even the ones rated poor (for whatever reason) may still 'sound' good to most people.
There may well be quite a few of them that won't measure well and may not be 'transparent' but never heard a bad amp (fortunately),

There are many amps and DACs that I have not heard or used so there might be quite a few that don't 'sound' good but I did not hear it.
If I 'listened' to 0.01% of all DACs and amps I would be really surprised.

I have heard a lot of bad 'sound' but the culprit was always the speakers (and/or locations they were used in) or headphones or them being driven by under powered (and clipping) amps or poor recordings or music I did not care for.

They won’t sound good or bad. The source file quality of performance, recording, mastering will determine how good it sounds

 

[solderdude]

They won’t sound good or bad. The source file quality of performance, recording, mastering will determine how good it sounds

Doesn't that imply that they are audible transparent ?

 

[SoundMagic]

Hello,

I wanted to ask what's hot right now in terms of amplifiers in the $1,000 price range? I don't follow all the latest developments closely, and in China there's something new every week, and every 2-3 months there's a game-changer... About three years ago, the SABAJ A30A was the best (today, most people have probably forgotten about it). What's the absolute best in this price range right now?
I'm actually looking for an amplifier, or possibly an amplifier with a DAC. For a small room (about 20 square meters) and bookshelf speakers. I can buy the DAC separately (I was thinking about the FiiO K13 R2R, good enough?) and the WiiM Ultra as a streamer. Could be class D.

Which AMP is currently the strongest contender?

I want to connect it to the following speakers: Usher S-520 or KEF LS50 Meta or B&W 607 S3 (maybe others, I'm still thinking about it).

Thanks for recomendations!

Yamaha R-N800A is all that you need, 100 watts @ 8ohms, 4Ohm stable, MusicCast Streamer, USB DAC, Pre-out if need more power in the future, AM/FM/DAB Radio. It’s a Swiss Army knife of a receiver. Just add speakers.

 

[CT007]

Hypex Nilai500 Stereo

Nice! Like the OP, I have been looking at (stereo/dual mono) power amps around roughly $1000-1500, with proven measurements, and the Apollon NCx500ST is the Champion so far.

Then I've seen some Nilai500 variants(mono DIY Nilai 500, Hypex stereo kit, Apollon Nilai 500 ST), but not any stereo versions that were tested here, to compare to the NCx500ST.

I think it's safe to assume the tested performance of the mono Nilai500 amps carries into the stereo Nilai500 amps. So the Nilai would give you many, small performance advantages over the NCx500, particularly notable/visible with load dependency:

So, I wonder if one can hear a difference between NCx500ST and Nilai500ST(or NCx500 Dual Mono)? The difference(at Apollon) is 400€/$465. I suppose, with the Nilai, you know for sure you are not getting any FR rolloff, compared to the lower Hypex models. (I am definitely not interested in brands like Topping for speaker amps)

 

[Ropeburn]

Nice! Like the OP, I have been looking at (stereo/dual mono) amps around roughly $1000-1500, with proven measurements, and the Apollon NCx500ST is the Champion so far.

Then I've seen some Nilai500 variants(mono DIY Nilai 500, Hypex stereo kit, Apollon Nilai 500 ST), but not any stereo versions that were tested here, to compare to the NCx500ST.

I think it's safe to assume the tested performance of the mono Nilai500 amps carries into the stereo Nilai500 amps. So the Nilai would give you many, small performance advantages over the NCx500, particularly notable/visible with load dependency:

View attachment 496300View attachment 496301View attachment 496303
So, I wonder if one can hear a difference between NCx500ST and Nilai500ST(or NCx500 Dual Mono)? The difference(at Apollon) is 400€/$465. I suppose, with the Nilai, you know for sure you are not getting any FR rolloff, compared to the lower Hypex models.

That's not a difference in load dependency, both have none. It's a (small) difference in frequency response. Fun fact: a slight treble rolloff is usually called "warm" , although it's so tiny on the NC(x) models, you won't notice a thing. Adults can't hear over 18-19kHz anyway.

 

[Willem]

Sonically, speakers and their interaction with the room are all that matters in most situations. Therefore, a DAC with volume control and some form of dsp room equalization is crucial. Right now WiiM has the best deals for that. Add a Hypex power amp and you are done. For a smaller room a WiiM Amp Ultra may be enough.

 

[CT007]

That's not a difference in load dependency, both have none. It's a (small) difference in frequency response. Fun fact: a slight treble rolloff is usually called "warm" , although it's so tiny on the NC(x) models, you won't notice a thing. Adults can't hear over 18-19kHz anyway.

Using the measured results from the Apollon NCx500ST as a reference standard, how much lower would you allow the typically tested areas of interest to drop/differ before considering a discernable, worsening difference was attained? (SNR channel difference of more than 5dB; SNR < 100dB; SINAD < 90dB; THD+N >= 0.005%, or a THD+N channel difference greater than 0.001? for examples)

 

[solderdude]

Using the measured results from the Apollon NCx500ST as a reference standard, how much lower would you allow the typically tested areas of interest to drop/differ before considering a discernable, worsening difference was attained? (SNR channel difference of more than 5dB; SNR < 100dB; SINAD < 90dB; THD+N >= 0.005%, or a THD+N channel difference greater than 0.001? for examples)

Consider that the vast majority of people can't even hear 0.1% distortion when music is used.
In the lower frequencies 1% is already good enough.
When you want to play 'safe' 0.01% is inaudible.
This is harmonic distortion. Intermodulation distortion is more sound degrading (as there is less chance of masking) also music dependent.
What one also needs to consider (because of masking) is that higher order distortion (3rd to 7th) is potentially more audible than 2nd and 3rd harmonics.

Also one should realize distortion at lower levels (where the amp is normally used) the distortion usually is lower and the distortion products that are there will be below audible thresholds.

It is great engineering if distortion is in the 0.000something range but inconsequential for music enjoyment. Manufacturers love these low numbers as selling argument and showing off their 'engineering chops'.
Not important for real world music enjoyment.
If it were, not a single person on this planet would be using tube equipment or SS designed to have 'high' amounts of lower order distortion.

 

[terryforsythe]

So, I wonder if one can hear a difference between NCx500ST and Nilai500ST(or NCx500 Dual Mono)? The difference(at Apollon) is 400€/$465.

I doubt it, especially those of us over 50 years old.

Probably the most compelling reasons for me to go with the Nilai, in addition to its measured performance characteristics, was that it was available in a DIY kit, and the case was fairly low profile vertically.

As far as being DIY, I enjoyed assembling it, though it actually turned out to be very simple. There was no soldering or crimping required - just screwing some things together and plugging in the cables.

As far as being low profile, I bought it to replace an Adcom GFA-5802, which I absolutely loved. But, the Adcom was so large that I could not fit any more amplifiers in my built-in stereo cabinet, and I wanted to go all active. The low profile of the Nilai Stereo opened up room to allow me to add the additional amplfiers. Also, the Nilai puts out a lot less heat than my Adcom, which alleviated concerns I had over whether all of the amplifiers in the stereo cabinet would get too warm.

Eventually I added a second power supply to the Nilai to make it dual-mono. I really did not need it, but I keep my amplifiers a long time. Who knows what level of power I may want some time down the road, so I bought a second power supply while they still are in production and available. With the second power supply it does run slightly warmer. My stereo cabinet is enclosed, with a glass door. I doubt it would have been an issue, but I added low noise/low rpm Noctua fans to the sides of the cabinet to provide a little bit of air flow. Now my amplifiers all run cool, even with the glass door closed, and with the door closed I cannot hear the fans. Even with the door open, I only can barely hear the fans when I am standing right next to the cabinet.

 

[CT007]

Consider that the vast majority of people can't even hear 0.1% distortion when music is used.
In the lower frequencies 1% is already good enough.
When you want to play 'safe' 0.01% is inaudible.
This is harmonic distortion. Intermodulation distortion is more sound degrading (as there is less chance of masking) also music dependent.
What one also needs to consider (because of masking) is that higher order distortion (3rd to 7th) is potentially more audible than 2nd and 3rd harmonics.

Hm, maybe reviews should receive a simple stamp at the end, saying, "Distortion: Inaudible / Distortion: Audible".

I care a lot about having as good of imaging and spatial depth as possible, which, as far as I can tell, requires as close of channel matching as possible, thus why I would prefer higher tolerances than not. The best imaging+phantom center I've heard has been from the active Kali IN-8 V2, which makes me wonder if built-in amps like that generally out-perform the vast majority of external amp+speaker setups. Would be fun to experiment with both setups, cost permitted.

 

[solderdude]

care a lot about having as good of imaging and spatial depth as possible, which, as far as I can tell, requires as close of channel matching as possible,

For transducers this is partly important.
Amplifiers have no issues with this aspect.

 

[CT007]

Amplifiers have no issues with this aspect.

Strange. I would think it would, being part of the signal chain. Some difference in channel gain, affecting output timing, affecting image/position accuracy, at least a little. Maybe not enough to tell, within a 3% difference, say.

 

[solderdude]

Difference in channel gain would be caused by the volume control and thus depend on what type is used and what the volpot position is (usually poorer at the lowest volume setting). This can result in the phantom center shifting a bit to L or R but will not affect imaging.
Difference in gain of 2 circuits will be determined by the used resistors in the feedback path which will be less than 0.5% in practice so below 0.5dB difference and is not audible.

Just have a look at Amir's amp measurements where he always shows channel balance and when applicable also volume control tracking.

Timing is not an issue in amplifiers it is an issue for the performers during the recording and even that can be corrected in a studio.
Timing also was an issue in early CD players but not in amplifiers and not in today's DACs either.