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What's ASR Opinion On Line Interactive UPS Devices
- Thread starter joeg26er
- Start date
ASR opinion - as I understand it.
If you have poor mains quality as you describe - they can be useful to protect your system.
They will do nothing to improve the audio performance. And if your gear is halfway decent - should do nothing to reduce the performance either.
If you have poor mains quality as you describe - they can be useful to protect your system.
They will do nothing to improve the audio performance. And if your gear is halfway decent - should do nothing to reduce the performance either.
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I deal with UPSes as part of my job, so if you have any particular questions about them I'd be happy to help. I can't claim to speak on behalf of the entire ASR community, however.
A line-interactive UPS will protect against over-/under-voltages by engaging the buck-/boost-circuits, and more significant issues as well as complete outages will be addressed by switching to the battery/inverter system as long as the battery will support the load. They do provide some surge protection, but that's not their primary use. If you have significant issues with surge the best place for a device to address that is in the load center, and perhaps another one at the location of any valuable and/or sensitive equipment.
A line-interactive UPS will protect against over-/under-voltages by engaging the buck-/boost-circuits, and more significant issues as well as complete outages will be addressed by switching to the battery/inverter system as long as the battery will support the load. They do provide some surge protection, but that's not their primary use. If you have significant issues with surge the best place for a device to address that is in the load center, and perhaps another one at the location of any valuable and/or sensitive equipment.
I bought APC Back-UPS Pro BR1500G this year. Reason being, it comes with normal power outlets so you don't need adapter cables, and unless it active and running, the fan is off.
Here's a teardown video of it:
The software for it is kinda old and there's multiple versions of it around, so software support is not the best. But an old open source one works, even tho it looks like from the 90s:
In general I like the unit, feels very solid, heavy built like a tank. I also ended up using the Master/Slave function it comes with so my PC peripherals are off when the PC is off. The Hifi and networking run off the permanently protected outlets.
Here's a teardown video of it:
The software for it is kinda old and there's multiple versions of it around, so software support is not the best. But an old open source one works, even tho it looks like from the 90s:
In general I like the unit, feels very solid, heavy built like a tank. I also ended up using the Master/Slave function it comes with so my PC peripherals are off when the PC is off. The Hifi and networking run off the permanently protected outlets.
I know for audio this is overkill but here something to think about for you or others. We live 300 ft away from and 60 ft above the Pacific Ocean. Winds in winter storms hit 60 mph every year with power outages 2 to 6 days not uncommon. 5-1/2 years ago I installed solar panels and whole house battery because we lost a refrigerator's food and had some dark nights. Even on the cloudiest days the system will get us more power than we need to get through the night without the grid. Last year my electric bill was $217 for the year and based on what the electric company pays for the energy we put back into grid, our initial cost and what we use, the system is on target to be paid in full next year after 6-1/2 years. That may change as I bought an EV in March but not by much. Our neighbors tell us about outages as they are imperceptible, not even a blip, without looking out the window to notice those who have loss power at night.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
You should think of a UPS as emergency supply if the power suddenly goes off. I have a UPS at home, and the only thing connected to it is my desktop PC. If the power goes off while I am working, it gives me enough time to save my work before shutting down the PC. I don't care if power cuts out while I am listening to music, audio isn't THAT important.
- Thread Starter
- #7
Only for surge protection
I never stated I wanted it to improve audio
doing a deeper dive, I hear some have added EMI though
Going to see if there is a way to select one with no EMI without having to purchase/measure/etc
UPS devices are simple stuff. They keep providing power for a (often rather short) time while power outages happen, and because of that they also have the ability to isolate stuff from damaging stuff in the rather rare occasions it happens and equipment can't isolate itself from it (which kinda means it's somewhat questionably designed but hey). I actually decommissioned mine, batteries died too soon and then it kept doing alarm sounds while the replacement battery took weeks to arrive (part of the forever replacement policy). Annoying.
Zero influence on any kind of SQ parameters. Capably questioned audio equipment could not care less if power goes off suddenly. UPS home devices never provide power long enough if a long lasting outage happens.
I do have my own grid at home, solar plus public and a battery pool that lasts about ~4 hours if I don't start turning stuff off.
Zero influence on any kind of SQ parameters. Capably questioned audio equipment could not care less if power goes off suddenly. UPS home devices never provide power long enough if a long lasting outage happens.
I do have my own grid at home, solar plus public and a battery pool that lasts about ~4 hours if I don't start turning stuff off.
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I have at least one (sized for use) in each room. Some just to run a light or + a laptop/desktop, WiFi, internet, etc, others to run much larger things (every receptacle in my home is a 20 amp one [I do not know what they were thinking back in the late 60's or early 70's when it was built] {but it is great to have 2 along the living room wall where the stereo is}).
I have been able to run the home for a couple of days (and listen to my music) when I started using these devices in Saipan about 25 years ago. We had an enforced rolling blackout from 12 mid-day to 2 PM daily (theoretically to save power). Because of these devices, it had zero effect on us.
As to power conditioning issues, that is not their purpose, although they MAY do a bit of that, I do not know for sure.
But 1-4 hour unscheduled blackouts were common, so that was the motivating factor for having them & they did what they were supposed to do for years (although the batteries do need to be replaced from time to time.
I now live in deep rural Spain. I have separate UPS - online for the big ones, line interactive for the smaller - on my studio, my IT rack, my Starlink connection, my wife's PC and the living room TV - plus a spare 1500VA. All but one of these are Cyberpower with VA varying from 2200 down to 650. They earn their keep: I'd estimate the buck/boost operates at least weekly, and there's a drop out beyond brown-out on average once every three weeks, usually only for less than a minute: these events often come in clusters, probably to do with maintenance cycles. I have specified and sold hundreds of UPS's via my former UK IT business over the last 25 years or so. The make I avoid is APC, not because they don't work - they work fine - but we found that the maintenance costs of short battery life -- due perhaps to high-stress charging and consequent unending replacements (or is that an income stream?) -- made them uneconomic. We had one return on a Cyberpower out of around 35 supplied. YMMV of course - this was in the UK. I have a small generator for longer failures - like the 19 hours total blackout early in the year, which I trust will not repeat! They will protect just fine against normal transient levels, if you need lightning surge protection more extreme sacrificial measures at the switchboard are required.
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I prefer an online or double conversion UPS. They have zero switchover time because they always convert to DC and then back to AC, so that the battery is always on direct standby if the primary AC fails. They are slightly more expensive, but still affordable. I use one for my home server and some other smaller electronics to cover the switchover delay of the main backup battery system of the house. It works well for that. Mine is from the brand Powerwalker. As I recall, it was reviewed quite favourably.
I have a CyberPower CP1500EPFCLCD protecting my fibre broadband ONT, firewall, primary switch and access point. I works well and i've never had any issues with it. It will keep my comms kit running for around 3 hours in the event of a power outage.
I have a more basic APC Back-UPS BX750MI protecting my main PC and older APC and Salicru units protecting two NAS devices. The oldest APC unit is probably on it's 3rd or 4th NP7-12 battery (it's a 12 year old BE700G-UK)
I have a more basic APC Back-UPS BX750MI protecting my main PC and older APC and Salicru units protecting two NAS devices. The oldest APC unit is probably on it's 3rd or 4th NP7-12 battery (it's a 12 year old BE700G-UK)
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respice finem
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If only they weren`t that expensive... And, IIRC, they are more "power hungry", or is this not the case any more?
The one I got (which admittedly is a small one) wasn't much more expensive than a normal one. Only like 20% more or so. I thought, for that kind of money, it's worth it.
Yes, they obviously have more losses. That is the price to pay.
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You lose efficiency with the online double-conversion type as converting from AC to DC and back again comes with losses. Between that and the larger up-front outlay, I wouldn't generally recommend them unless the loads are things that can't tolerate the transfer time of a standby or line-interactive UPS, which is on the order of 10-20ms for any halfway decent model. The vast majority of equipment can tolerate that easily these days.
respice finem
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I got two of these "bog standard" UPS (line interactive) for protecting my PC and audio gear and to provide "graceful shutdown" in case of an outage:
www.se.com
One failed after IIRC six months, and I thought it might be due to the complex load, but it seemingly wasn't, because the identical warranty replacement is working for two years now. There are relatively frequent short outages or voltage fluctuations here, due to industry and agriculture.
BE850G2-GR - APC Back-UPS, 850VA/520W Boden-/Wandmontage, 230V, 8x CEE 7/3 Schuko-Steckdosen, USB Typ A+C Ports, vom Benutzer austauschbarer Akku | Schneider Electric Deutschland
Schneider Electric Deutschland. BE850G2-GR - APC Back-UPS, 850VA/520W Boden-/Wandmontage, 230V, 8x CEE 7/3 Schuko-Steckdosen, USB Typ A+C Ports, vom Benutzer austauschbarer Akku.
www.se.com
One failed after IIRC six months, and I thought it might be due to the complex load, but it seemingly wasn't, because the identical warranty replacement is working for two years now. There are relatively frequent short outages or voltage fluctuations here, due to industry and agriculture.
JSmith
Master Contributor
There are surge protectors though that aren't very good at what they are intended for... look for a low clamping voltage, high joule rating and a fast response time at least.
JSmith
JSmith
I, too, have switched to Cyberpower from APC but not due to battery replacement issues but due to the on/off power switch failing to function (the switch itself not being the issue) & having to send a couple of unit's back for repair/replacement (they did take care of them promptly (one in warranty, one for a nominal [and reasonable] fee out of warranty) but the third one within a year {and not being a battery issue}), caused me to switch.
My home cannot be seen from above, due to tree cover. All that can be seen is trees.
For me, there is no time that my roof (although parts of my yard does for an hour or 2) gets direct sunlight during the day, due to heavy tree cover.
And, sometimes a section of a limb 1/4 the diameter of me & 4 or more feet long, falls onto the roof (maybe twice a year).
Limbs like that can also cause a power outage.
So solar is out.
UPS units are in. (portable generator, too. For the well's water pump).
But, due to the tree cover, generally my power bill is lower (and the trees seem to be a wind break).