What's a realistic expectation for bass performance?

[ryanosaur]

Maybe or maybe not based on the OP's "Seems like I can either get punchy back with no lows or all lows and no punch."

So if he can get enough "punch" already at some positions it might be possible to level it out without losing too much "punch". It's definitely worth a try with position/EQ first before throwing $$$ of subs at the problem.

IIRC, Dayton lists FR as 30-140, but no mention of if that is -3 or -10 dB at 30Hz. Even the Sub1500 doesn't reach infrasonic output.
I haven't found a CEA2010 report on any of these subs. I know BB likes the Sub1200 as Best Budget performer, but not much out there beyond that.

I am not fully recommending that OP goes and spends money they may not have, rather identifying an issue related to his primary concern. There is only so much that Cabin Gain can do to help out a Sub like that, and it is a distinct possibility that their room treatment could be hampering their goals.
We need to be honest about that. For everybody that extols the necessity of acoustic treatments, far too many are applied with little-to-no understanding of acoustics or guidance from a person who does.

 

[mightycicadalord]

These Subs have plenty of extension and more than enough spl, there is little excursion at the levels I listen. There is a lot of headroom for eq to extend them lower but I don't feel the need to yet.

Not really interested in buying advice but fixing problems with what I have. I'm pretty confident that the issues caused by room interactions massively outweigh any limitations of my gear.

Made progress on fixing my 100hz region with placement, more of that I say. Sounds way better already.

 

[freemansteve]

Are you sure the subs are in phase with the mains?
(sorry if this has been covered)

I have a pair of very modest, super-compact qAcoustic 3060i's and down to say 35Hz I get a fairly decent slam.
One thing, if your mains are rear-ported, you may want to try a bung in the ports, especially if they are close to the back walls, as you can get cancelling effects to the subs.

Really though, I have have tried many speaker combinations, and reckon that small mains (with not very extended bass) and subs can be made to work well, but big floor-standing speakers may be a bad idea with subs. Best to get big speakers that genuinely can play low without the need for subs. Complexity is a pain.

If the the speaker choices you have made are fixed, then the suggestion above of the miniDSP (with Dirac) might well be the best plan.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Yes it's all in phase, checked that the other day. The mains are digitally restricted to a roll off of 80hz atm so on port plug is really necessary. In my experience something weird happens to the midrange when you plug a speakers port so I try to avoid that. I don't need a minidsp or dirac I have full DSP control already, parametric eq's, delay, can load literally and VST plugin onto each channel.

 

[DWPress]

Your measurements look better after moving things around. Have you tried lowering the XO frequency or want to stay at 80?

 

[mightycicadalord]

Your measurements look better after moving things around. Have you tried lowering the XO frequency or want to stay at 80?

I'm open to anything that will help, xover points aren't set in stone just what they're at atm.

 

[mightycicadalord]

I went ahead and moved the subs around a ton and measured, had to increase REW max measurements. Found the best spots, both subs about 4-5' into the room and 1' off the front wall. This seems to give me measurements without any nulls. Applied some EQ to reduce a peak at ~83hz, and took the advice of other users about the extension of the sub and have a filter at 25hz +4db and that seemed to fill in some stuff below. I also changed the xover to 70hz on the towers and 85hz on the subs. Seems to give the best integration subjectively.

Still can't figure out how to route REW through voicemeter but once I do I'll share measurements. Sounds even better now.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Oh hey I figured it out!

That's L and R at the same time, for shiggles. Just using the built in EQ in voicemeter ATM so limited number of filters. I'm going load up fabfilter pro Q to start handling the filtering. Have to say it sounds really awesome right now.

 

[mightycicadalord]

So after having everything ruined by a cat knocking the speakers down, I've got it back to where I think it was. I have no idea how my little fur demons managed to knock down these very heavy speakers. I'm very lucky and there's not even a dent in the unfinished MDF.

I've been listening a lot and attempting to some mixes on the system, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the bass still. There feels like there is a disconnect between the towers and subs, and ~83hz or so rings out in this room a lot making some songs work great, and others turn to mud.

I've noticed that I seem to prefer the sound of the towers in full range vs. with xover and sub. Is there any validity in preferring everything coming from the same speaker?

I feel I've kinda noticed what people are saying about cheap subs. I just may toss these Dayton's on FB marketplace and build some subs. I have two Dayton PA380's lying around. I've considered possibly building some big ole three ways and omitting the subs.

I also asked the designer of the speakers about a cancellation at 550hz that my speakers exhibit, no reply on that one. What would one do to try and address that? They are Amiga DIY speakers.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Oh bah humbug, I think I'll have to ditch voicemeter for my EQ and xover. I just ran a measurement through voice meter and one bypassing it and voicemeter is throwing the phase all over the place.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Oh bah humbug, I think I'll have to ditch voicemeter for my EQ and xover. I just ran a measurement through voice meter and one bypassing it and voicemeter is throwing the phase all over the place.


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That phase in moth examples needs to be "unwrapped". The voicemeter may have a time delay. That doesn't mean you have an audible problem.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Well when I unwrap it's kind not really visible, what are the methods to making the phase more, visually informative?

I do believe voice meter has a processing buffer, but would that cause the phase you see? I figured that would only matter if I gave it a timing reference?

 

[ernestcarl]

A little frequency dependent windowing to make things more humanly readable is needed… first square button in REW besides SPL window.

 

[mightycicadalord]

A little frequency dependent windowing to make things more humanly readable is needed… first square button in REW besides SPL window.

I'm confused, you mean the one that says SPL and Phase?

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

You can’t ignore your electronics completely. Speaking from my experience only, replace the sub amplifiers if they are anything less than Hypex or Purifi. Class AB or Class G will only ever give you mush. I think Icepower has a new line but I would recommend even the older line over Class AB/G

"...less than Hypex or Purifi..." is dimensionless. "Class..." the same. Maybe, as this site is about science and not black art and Brand promotion, please attempt to splain with documented references how his less than <200 [Hz] sound might better meet his expectations/hopes. I do believe systems with extraordinary bass performance have been achieved with non-Ice powered amplification. Feel free to disagree with substantiation.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Was playing with EQ APO, would be really slick if it didn't break all the time. This one is a new record, it literally stopped being adjustable withing 10 minutes. It will usually work fine for a work then break, but this a record.

 

[ernestcarl]

I'm confused, you mean the one that says SPL and Phase?

You can change the default settings in the Analysis Preferences tab: https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/analysis.html

Changing the window for an individual selected measurement require you to open IR Windows settings. I’m away from my computer so cant take a snapshot.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Been toying with placement as a few pieces of furniture needed moving. Anyone have an opinion on my standing vs. sitting response?

I notice that stuff sounds wayyyy better when I stand. Is there something I can do height wise to help the green get closer to the red response?

 

[ryanosaur]

Try putting a sub on a riser, perhaps?

 

[mightycicadalord]

I'll play with that, I'm curious why the energy from the woofer is so much greater, I didn't adjust the gain on the mic or output volume, it was the same.