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What you need to know about the virus in China "2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)"
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Shadrach
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It is certainly true that I am not of an empathetic nature.
I was a scientist. I am an atheist, a socialists and value objectivity.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093256/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-deaths-worldwide-by-country/
I don't find the constant stream of media images and reporting of the drama helpful.
As for alternative views on the crisis these sites will provide some.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/
http://www.axisoflogic.com/
http://jdmichel.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2020/03/24/covid-19-the-game-is-over-305275.html
Many of the articles provide extreme views. One has to rely on the readers ability to separate the improbable from the probable.
However, reading such articles and noting who has written them and their qualifications and experience may provide some insight into their worth.
I posted Post 2,212 to demonstrate that how you look at the numbers will have a major bearing on how you view the crisis.
In human terms it is a tragedy. In terms of survival of the species it's almost irrelevant.
The consequences of our actions in this crisis may be far more damaging.
The medical profesion and the scientists know which sections of the population are at most risk from this virus. It is possible to isolate the majority of the high risk group and let the rest of us return to work. One can only prevent people from carrying out their normal lives for so long without risking enormous damage to the economy on which we all depend. Add to this the possiblity of social unrest because the state is unable to provide for those who do not fit into the rescue plan and you will have massive civil unrest.
Where I live (Catalonia Spain) people are already suffering financial hardship because they cannot work and the state cannot support them for the proposed duration of the lockdown. many here will not qualify for state support as will not many in the USA. We do not all have excess income or savings on which we can draw.
I was a scientist. I am an atheist, a socialists and value objectivity.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093256/novel-coronavirus-2019ncov-deaths-worldwide-by-country/
I don't find the constant stream of media images and reporting of the drama helpful.
As for alternative views on the crisis these sites will provide some.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/
http://www.axisoflogic.com/
http://jdmichel.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2020/03/24/covid-19-the-game-is-over-305275.html
Many of the articles provide extreme views. One has to rely on the readers ability to separate the improbable from the probable.
However, reading such articles and noting who has written them and their qualifications and experience may provide some insight into their worth.
I posted Post 2,212 to demonstrate that how you look at the numbers will have a major bearing on how you view the crisis.
In human terms it is a tragedy. In terms of survival of the species it's almost irrelevant.
The consequences of our actions in this crisis may be far more damaging.
The medical profesion and the scientists know which sections of the population are at most risk from this virus. It is possible to isolate the majority of the high risk group and let the rest of us return to work. One can only prevent people from carrying out their normal lives for so long without risking enormous damage to the economy on which we all depend. Add to this the possiblity of social unrest because the state is unable to provide for those who do not fit into the rescue plan and you will have massive civil unrest.
Where I live (Catalonia Spain) people are already suffering financial hardship because they cannot work and the state cannot support them for the proposed duration of the lockdown. many here will not qualify for state support as will not many in the USA. We do not all have excess income or savings on which we can draw.
That is what Israeli Defense Minister Naftali Bennett suggested, isolating the elderly:
https://gellerreport.com/2020/03/is...elderly-let-rest-become-infected-immune.html/
I don't know how that is meant to be carried out. People younger than 60 will still get sick and die.
There was a report of a teen dying, now there is backtracking?
https://www.newsweek.com/los-angeles-teen-covid-19-death-psychological-impact-1494368
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They don't know, they just learnt.
If the the sandbox is ever that ideal, so predictable, so calculatable, that virus wouldn't have exist at the first place had the manipulations be so precise, it wouldn't ever had gotten out of that wet market either. No chance.
But we all know the real world is never ideal, otherwise we'd always have 100% efficiency.
This is exactly why these things happens, why things goes wrong, stupidity and/or arrogance. Chernobyl and Fukushima thought they could handled it too.
I studied arts, major cultural studies, part of it was media studies and modernity, Marxism of course, love techs, and I feel like a dumb have to say these.
So you're market driven after all.
I suggest you to walk out of the door, lead your people and protest now. Fight for your people for better future. Objectively useless just by saying.
Gonna stop now
If the the sandbox is ever that ideal, so predictable, so calculatable, that virus wouldn't have exist at the first place had the manipulations be so precise, it wouldn't ever had gotten out of that wet market either. No chance.
But we all know the real world is never ideal, otherwise we'd always have 100% efficiency.
This is exactly why these things happens, why things goes wrong, stupidity and/or arrogance. Chernobyl and Fukushima thought they could handled it too.
I studied arts, major cultural studies, part of it was media studies and modernity, Marxism of course, love techs, and I feel like a dumb have to say these.
So you're market driven after all.
I suggest you to walk out of the door, lead your people and protest now. Fight for your people for better future. Objectively useless just by saying.
Gonna stop now
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Archlich
Member
Being on a small rant ...
Much has been said about them Asians with their proximity with animals ... while we, the thoughtful non-Asians. kiss our pets, play with our pets, take them to the veterinarian, visit our pets stores ...
To Health!
I just learnt of something new from a reddit post. Google "smoked bat" and you'll find photos of what seems to be a Florida specialty,
I mean, yeah. Bushmeats.
I worry for my mom who is ethical Chinese (a mainlander). She trekked half of the Camino de Santiago last year. Was eyeing to finish the other half this September...obviously it's no longer feasible. But she's so into it. Next year maybe? How long would it take for Europe to cure? When would it be a safe time for an old Chinese lady to trek alone, if there ever will be one? ...
It's not like the world is ending. But it does look like it's closing up.
Just some random musing. Couldn't stop thinking since, well, I got all the time.
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Yeah, ear nose and throat (EnT) surgeons are collegues who are being badly hammered.
Looks like they were operating electively on unknown to them - asymptomatic covid pts. That type of surgery results in massive viral load on the operator, repeatedly from several patients, if not using full PPE and only standard protective gear.
snapsc
Member
Shadrach...
At this point in time, each country has decided how it will approach the defeat of this virus and how it will try to save its economy and as many people as possible. Mistakes are being made and will always be made.
The value of life vs the world economic destruction that is occurring will be debated for many years to come. It appears at this point that the human race will survive and that after some time, our economies will be put back in order (but not without a lot of individual suffering). In those respects, think of this situation as a painful trial run as there will likely be more deadly pandemics and/or other calamities in the years to come.
From a detached viewpoint, there are at least three (and probably many more) aspects of the CV19 fight that will prove to be of value when the dust settles and the analysis begins:
In the meantime, if you are concerned about your personal ability to withstand the virus, you must stay home and or social distance until such time that all the testing shows it is gone or until a vaccine is available.
At this point in time, each country has decided how it will approach the defeat of this virus and how it will try to save its economy and as many people as possible. Mistakes are being made and will always be made.
The value of life vs the world economic destruction that is occurring will be debated for many years to come. It appears at this point that the human race will survive and that after some time, our economies will be put back in order (but not without a lot of individual suffering). In those respects, think of this situation as a painful trial run as there will likely be more deadly pandemics and/or other calamities in the years to come.
From a detached viewpoint, there are at least three (and probably many more) aspects of the CV19 fight that will prove to be of value when the dust settles and the analysis begins:
- How well did the world work together to identify the disease and then identify short term actions to contain the spread and long term actions to eradicate the disease
- How well did countries enforce the actions needed to contain the spread
- How long did it take to develop and produce enough vaccine to inoculate 7+ billion people
In the meantime, if you are concerned about your personal ability to withstand the virus, you must stay home and or social distance until such time that all the testing shows it is gone or until a vaccine is available.
Shadrach
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That would explain our different views then.They don't know, they just learnt.
If the the sandbox is ever that ideal, so predictable, so calculatable, that virus wouldn't have exist at the first place had the manipulations be so precise, it wouldn't ever had gotten out of that wet market either. No chance.
But we all know the real world is never ideal, otherwise we'd always have 100% efficiency.
This is exactly why these things happens, why things goes wrong, stupidity and/or arrogance. Chernobyl and Fukushima thought they could handled it too.
I studied arts, major cultural studies, part of it was media studies and modernity, Marxism of course, love techs, and I feel like a dumb have to say these.
So you're market driven after all.
I suggest you to walk out of the door, lead your people and protest now. Fight for your people for better future. Objectively useless just by saying.
Gonna stop now
Possible???
You would not only have to isolate that high risk group, but you would have to isolate many of the people who work in nursing homes and assisted living facilities who take care of them. And there are the people that don't live in such facilities who have hired help or family members provide assistance to them. They'd need isolation, too. We'd have to isolate medical facilities and healthcare workers to provide medical services that the high risk group needs unrelated to the coronavirus. And you'd have to do a massive amount of testing to make certain none of those being isolated have the virus.
Possible? Only in a theoretical sense. Highly impractical. Better to wish for all of the billionaires of the world to donate 95% of their wealth for medical supplies, research into vaccines and treatments, and to provide monetary assistance to those with economic need. It's possible, and more practical to implement if you can get them to agree to do it.
graz_lag
Major Contributor
“Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened,” Trump said.
In fact, the US intelligence community, public health experts and officials in Trump’s own administration had warned for years that the country was at risk from a pandemic, including specific warnings about a coronavirus outbreak.
When this strain of coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, was identified in Wuhan, China in early January, health experts immediately cautioned that it could turn into a global health crisis.
“This was foreseeable and foreseen, weeks and months ago, and only now is the White House coming out of denial and heading straight into saying it could not have been foreseen,” Marc Lipsitch, director of Harvard’s Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, told CNN on Sunday.
In fact, the US intelligence community, public health experts and officials in Trump’s own administration had warned for years that the country was at risk from a pandemic, including specific warnings about a coronavirus outbreak.
When this strain of coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, was identified in Wuhan, China in early January, health experts immediately cautioned that it could turn into a global health crisis.
“This was foreseeable and foreseen, weeks and months ago, and only now is the White House coming out of denial and heading straight into saying it could not have been foreseen,” Marc Lipsitch, director of Harvard’s Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, told CNN on Sunday.
maty
Major Contributor
[Catalan] https://societat.e-noticies.cat/mes-de-200-morts-en-un-dia-129943.html
Catalonia
[ A total of 208 people died this Thursday from coronavirus in Catalonia, and more than 1,300 new cases of the pathogen were detected during the day.
The coronavirus pandemic has already claimed the lives of about 900 people in Catalonia, with almost 13,000 infected by the pathogen. The Ministry of Health has reported that in the last hours 1,348 new positive coronaviruses have been confirmed in Catalonia, increasing the total number of infected to 12,940 and the number of deaths to 880. Of the total number of those affected by the virus, 2,248 are professionals sanitary [infected + quarantine].
The Ministry of Health has confirmed a cumulative total of 395 coronavirus positives in the Igualada outbreak, of which 140 are health professionals and 50 are dead by the virus. To date, a total of 2,384 hospital discharges of people affected by Covid-19 have been counted in Catalonia as a whole. ]
The good news: contagion rate continues to drop in Catalonia, and much in just two days. Therefore Spanish style confinement is also effective here!
New infected: 1,348/11,592 -> 11.6%
Catalonia
[ A total of 208 people died this Thursday from coronavirus in Catalonia, and more than 1,300 new cases of the pathogen were detected during the day.
The coronavirus pandemic has already claimed the lives of about 900 people in Catalonia, with almost 13,000 infected by the pathogen. The Ministry of Health has reported that in the last hours 1,348 new positive coronaviruses have been confirmed in Catalonia, increasing the total number of infected to 12,940 and the number of deaths to 880. Of the total number of those affected by the virus, 2,248 are professionals sanitary [infected + quarantine].
The Ministry of Health has confirmed a cumulative total of 395 coronavirus positives in the Igualada outbreak, of which 140 are health professionals and 50 are dead by the virus. To date, a total of 2,384 hospital discharges of people affected by Covid-19 have been counted in Catalonia as a whole. ]
The good news: contagion rate continues to drop in Catalonia, and much in just two days. Therefore Spanish style confinement is also effective here!
New infected: 1,348/11,592 -> 11.6%
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You gotta think BIGGER...
"US advocacy group files $20 trillion lawsuit against Chinese govt"
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/w...ion-lawsuit-against-chinese-govt-5065281.html
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The economic loss corresponds to a lot of job and income losses and thus threatens many people's livelihoods putting them in precarious and even desperate situations leading to suicides or drug overdoses. (The US opiate crisis will probably get a lot worse.) There is thus a trade-off between preventing deaths due to economic loss and preventing deaths due to COVID19.
Still, letting the virus spread freely is going to significantly reduce the labour force, which will likely increase labour cost, which in turn will increase prices and likely reduce production. The increase in labour cost together with lower production may put some firms in trouble financially and thus threaten jobs.
While demand for health care will significantly increase, demand for other goods and services will in turn likely decrease. Government can counter the decrease in demand through public spending but supply will be constrained by the reduced labour force. However, people losing their job may quickly find new work due to low labour supply since labour demand likely is not changed much.
In sum, while unemployment (of the healthy) may remain low, this will lead to inflation and production likely decreasing. Barring government intervention, letting the virus spread freely will not save the economy.
Also, saying to a socialist that our economies will be put back in order is a bit ironic.
EDIT: Overall recessions apparently actually decrease mortality (or line 265-294 in the source code).
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My pet theory is that Vitamin D levels will affect the course of the disease. Vitamin D has been implicated in immune response and modulating that response including reducing inflammation. My understanding is that most of the deaths due to Corona are not from the virus, but rather from an excessive immune response. It wouldn't be all that difficult to see if there's an association between low D levels and mortality. I've googled it and can't find the data to confirm or refute.
SemperUnum
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Have Nordic countries (with mush less sun in the winter, hence less vitamin D) a higher mortality rate?
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