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What you need to know about the virus in China "2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)"

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Criticising Italy is a bit naff when the UK government have been talking about "herd immunity" which you actually achieve by vaccination not letting people die. :facepalm:
Then Trump announced he didn't believe the statistics (he never seems to believe experts) and his "hunch" was less than 1% would get it and the USA was the best prepared country :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
A fact check shows that is completely false.
Italy is certainly doing a more professional job than the UK or USA.
 
carlob said:
That document is nothing new, it's textbook or standard practice for anesthesiologists and resuscitators around the world and not only in Italy. This has been explained many times even on our local newspapers: doctors are requested to make an assessment on every patient candidate for intensive care and based on that, if they feel that intensive care is not going to improve patient's conditions or worse if they feel that intensive care will be causing useless pain without giving hope of recovery they will only give compassionate therapies.

As I said this is standard practice in Italy and everywhere so my question is: it is newsworthy? why are they instilling doubts that we are doing something different from standard medical practice? Has a similar article been written on what they do in UK or in France or in Spain or in another country (they follow the same protocols obviously)? To me is just clickbait to fill a webpage.
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It's newsworthy because it's a protocol document created specifically for coronavirus, which shows as I said they are preparing for a possible scenario in which ICU beds become saturated. Denying that this is a possibility, even if worse-case, is putting your head in the sand. It also acts as a stark and much needed warning to other countries, e.g. the UK which has less than half the number of ICU beds per capita than Italy, yet is still failing to take any social distancing measures, which to me seems baffling. News like this is helpful for people in these countries to know what to plan for.

Note I am in no way criticizing the Italian response - in fact I think this kind of preparedness is commendable, and they have done an incredible job so far considering the unlucky situation of being the epicentre of the European outbreak. But I agree the headline of the article is clickbait - most headlines are these days unfortunately.
 
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Frank Dernie said:
Criticising Italy is a bit naff when the UK government have been talking about "herd immunity" which you actually achieve by vaccination not letting people die.
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Immunity to many coronaviruses is short-lived. Whether this is true of COVID-19 remains unknown, but the herd immunity strategy seems extraordinarily ill-advised in light of what we know--and what we do not know--about COVID-19.
 
Maybe I was unclear and in case I apologize for that but my whole point is not about people criticising our approach, that is healthy and you can always improve on the other side I know by a fact that Italian public health system - at least in the center-north of Italy - is one of the best of the world and I know that they and the government are doing literally miracles to cope and expand our capacity to treat cases (they are doing it in preparation also in the other regions of Italy). My point is against bad journalism and incorrect or misleading articles spread around for who knows what reason.

You can add that there has been a total trasparency on what's going on here, all the data is available to the world, there are daily press conferences with also international press attending so if you want to write a factual piece you have all the sources to do so.
 
Dialectic said:
Immunity to many coronaviruses is short-lived. Whether this is true of COVID-19 remains unknown, but the herd immunity strategy seems extraordinarily ill-advised in light of what we know--and what we do not know--about COVID-19.
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The problem we have in the UK is that "herd immunity" doesn't mean herd immunity and self-isolation doesn't mean self-isolation. The chief scientific adviser uses the term on several ocassions as he explains the strategy, yet the health minister denies that herd immunity is part of the policy. And it seems that social distancing and self-isolation are being used to describe the same thing when they are obviously different.

I can't wait to see the now promised evidence behind their thinking.
 
carlob said:
Frankly I don't know what "the local" is but in any case If you want to keep explaining me, an Italian living in Italy btw, what the situation is in Italy based on an internet search do as you please and trust "the local" of whatever. To be clear I could not care less of what you think or what you trust, I'm writing here since I'm at home and have time to spare but if you like to be misinformed be my guest.
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I have family in Italy who are personally affected by this. It's my own uncle who we are in touch with multiple times every day and he has recovered from cancer so I assure you we are very aware of the situation there.

My aunt was in Melbourne and she had to rush to Italy, cutting her vacation short here.
 
It's alright, it doesn't matter how news agencies perform, they always have blind spots. That's why this thread exists: to let everyone already down in the field be the 1st hand primary source and supplement to info generated by the systems. Faster and better. And accurate of course.
 
gikigill said:
I have family in Italy who are personally affected by this. It's my own uncle who we are in touch with multiple times every day and he has recovered from cancer so I assure you we are very aware of the situation there.

My aunt was in Melbourne and she had to rush to Italy, cutting her vacation short here.
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well, tell them to turn on the television at 5pm (daily press conference of Lumbardy region) and 6pm (daily press conference of government, Health Ministry and Civil Protection) and follow the official data on the website of Civil Protection and Institute of Public Health and don't read "the local" but only Corriere della Sera and La Repubblica.
 
Oh, didn't Donald Ducks day of prayer stop the virus then? Well, I am surprised.
I can't wait to read what those in the US who are critical of Europe and Chinas handling of the virus have to say when the virus takes off in the US.
 
Our own beloved president Macron is due to speak on t.v. tonight, there are rumours of cancelling the 2nd round of municipal elections and of a tougher lock-down instead of the half-assed one we've got now. About time imho.
 
Shadrach said:
Oh, didn't Donald Ducks day of prayer stop the virus then? Well, I am surprised.
I can't wait to read what those in the US who are critical of Europe and Chinas handling of the virus have to say when the virus takes off in the US.
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Oh it already has... but they've yet to realize/admit that asymptomatic carriers are a major transmission vector and are still limiting testing to those that have full symptoms and prior contact. Once they eventually get to that point they will realize we've already got at least as many here as China - they're just adopting the head-in-sand approach to response intelligence. I'm pretty sure they think that's written in the Constitution somewhere - because it seems to be our first response to almost everything for at least the past 200 years IMO. :facepalm:

Apparently the "experts" here think community transmission means "went to China last month" - and everything else is a "let's wait and see..." situation. :rolleyes:
 
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digicidal said:
Oh it already has... but they've yet to realize/admit that asymptomatic carriers are a major transmission vector and are still limiting testing to those that have full symptoms and prior contact. Once they eventually get to that point they will realize we've already got at least as many here as China - they're just adopting the head-in-sand approach to response intelligence. I'm pretty sure they think that's written in the Constitution somewhere - because it seems to be our first response to almost everything for at least the past 200 years IMO. :facepalm:

Apparently the "experts" here think community transmission means "went to China last month" - and everything else is a "let's wait and see..." situation. :rolleyes:
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Its seriously worrying when a guy in NYC was interviewed on TV and he said "Didn't think it was anything that serious.." as the news crew surveyed the situation in NYC and saw that guy walking by with either the wife or family member. :facepalm::eek:

direstraitsfan98 said:
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They FED rate cuts have caused a very substantial rise in the US dollar exchange rates. Its definitely not doing online retailers/ businesses with overseas clientele any favours though ...
 
they should coordinate worldwide and shutdown the markets else it's going to be a bloodbath automotive stocks are down 50% in a few days...
 
digicidal said:
Oh it already has... but they've yet to realize/admit that asymptomatic carriers are a major transmission vector and are still limiting testing to those that have full symptoms and prior contact. Once they eventually get to that point they will realize we've already got at least as many here as China - they're just adopting the head-in-sand approach to response intelligence. I'm pretty sure they think that's written in the Constitution somewhere - because it seems to be our first response to almost everything for at least the past 200 years IMO. :facepalm:

Apparently the "experts" here think community transmission means "went to China last month" - and everything else is a "let's wait and see..." situation. :rolleyes:
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Yep. I think you keyed in on exactly what's happening when you say "major transmission vector."

Older people, who at high risk, are more likely to have been practicing at least some social distancing over the last couple of weeks. Or even before they started paying heed to the CDC, they are more likely to stay at home and not go out at the bars or entertainment events at night even there was not a virus. But it will catch up with many of the older population eventually if there are a lot of asymptomatic people, who because they feel healthy, may still be going around business as usual, and then visit older family or friends. Particularly since I'm not sure people really get that people can be spreaders and never show symptoms.

And I've been fairly restrictive, and yet could have some exposure. So I reminded my 78-year-old mother today that we need to be more conscious to practice social distancing when I stop by her house. She's been staying in, and I am her primary point of potential infection. I wonder how many asymptomatic people are stopping by to visit older family or friend and then giving them a hug or kiss on the cheek to say goodbye?
 
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