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What you need to know about the virus in China "2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)"

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Wes

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They are equipped to handle NBC warfare in a military scenario on a battlefield.

The equipment NATO uses for NBC warfare is not what hospitals are needing right now. As a hospital doctor the last thing you need is to climb into a full NBC hazmat suit and wear that for the rest of your working day and then also go through all the protocols to keep that suit clean and safe, it's just not practical for use in a civilian hospital.

Even though the press loves to call hospitals with a high load of COVID-19 patients a "battlefield", it is far from a real military battlefield and as such should not be named so.

I disagree. The point is not to donate gear to a hospital, but to deploy workers who are not going to be infected while carrying out their jobs. I also hope you don't think NATO is only able to conduct NBC ops on a 'battlefield.'

The troops can be those workers, and I do not mean inside a hospital necessarily.

I have little interest in how the 'press' characterizes things.
 

raistlin65

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We had another bad day: 986 new cases and 42 new deaths, a record bad day and +42%.

I'll trade. Michigander here.

Actually, I'm on the west side of Michigan. Whereas Detroit is projected to reach the peak hospitalizaion in 9 days, we are not predicted to exceed hospital bed capacity until the first of May where I am. So I'm feeling pretty lucky.
 

raistlin65

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Not sure if this has already been shared. Not yet peer-reviewed. More promising results

Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: results of a randomized clinical trial

from the abstract

From February 4 to February 28, 2020, 62 patients suffering from COVID-19 were diagnosed and admitted to Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University. All participants were randomized in a parallel-group trial, 31 patients were assigned to receive an additional 5-day HCQ (400 mg/d) treatment, Time to clinical recovery (TTCR), clinical characteristics, and radiological results were assessed at baseline and 5 days after treatment to evaluate the effect of HCQ. Key findings: For the 62 COVID-19 patients, 46.8% (29 of 62) were male and 53.2% (33 of 62) were female, the mean age was 44.7 (15.3) years. No difference in the age and sex distribution between the control group and the HCQ group. But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32). Notably, all 4 patients progressed to severe illness that occurred in the control group. However, there were 2 patients with mild adverse reactions in the HCQ treatment group. Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia.
 

SemperUnum

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The troops can be those workers, and I do not mean inside a hospital necessarily.
You can bet those troops are working hard already due to increasing COVID-19 infections inside the various military forces and/or are already set in place for their local use.

Also all under the radar (pun) to the press: several military force structures already provided what they could for civilian use (DSCA for example). NATO, as an overal military structure, is not needed to coordinate this.
 

Laserjock

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Sure, let's get rid of wild game markets. But A) The article is patently political ("China has no regard for the individual"; "China cannot be trusted") and B) it's a false premise that wet markets are the essential problem or that somehow another culture is to blame for being inferior. (Anybody remember Mad Cow in the très sophistiqué UK?) The problem is evolutionary biology that enables disease vectors to mutate. Alas, that will never change and new diseases are a fact of nature. This is a good place to start: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114494/
How many times did cows cause a virus one can get from being close to someone that has it or touching something they sneezed on, etc? (Just don’t eat the cow’s brain or spinal cord)

I don’t mean to “blame” any culture or people but if all of the sudden we started getting evidence that we were causing pandemic(s) by having cows near oysters (I live on the Texas Gulf Coast) then You tell me what should happen?
I merely made an observation from a quick search of these different Respiratory viruses that showed evidence that the original host could be/is bats.
if I’m wrong or my thinking is out of line, I apologize and I didn’t/don’t mean to insult anyone.
 

digicidal

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Maybe I should have been more specific, as in “close” proximity and or eating them?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...wn-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/
That's what the wet markets are all about... not just as far as bats are concerned, of course. Actually the bats themselves aren't usually the problem... it's all the other species that can potentially become a springboard for a mutated strain to infect humans. Likely civets last time and pangolins this time - although neither has been proven conclusively, AFAIK.

The pathogen hunters discovered hundreds of bat-borne coronaviruses with incredible genetic diversity. “The majority of them are harmless,” Shi says. But dozens belong to the same group as SARS. They can infect human lung cells in a petri dish, cause SARS-like diseases in mice, and evade vaccines and drugs that work against SARS.
Very interesting article... and frightening as well. o_O

@Laserjock - you shouldn't be apologizing to anyone, it's that kind of soft-shoe approach that creates problems. It is not a false premise at all... it's a very well supported one. I guess I've missed all the accolades showering the CCP and it's transparency and respect for individuals (or dissenting collectives for that matter) but disagreement with tone doesn't invalidate all content. In fact, it's the very reason that the researchers in that article you linked were so surprised that the outbreak occurred where it did - as opposed to much farther south (where more natural human-bat interactions occur). Conspiracy theorists might grasp upon her first thought which was that it escaped their lab. ;)

For whatever reason it seems to be inherently problematic when predators eat other predators in many cases - and that is certainly not isolated to any country or culture (nor even species). It even largely applies to fish as well. In general it makes sense that when you eat an animal that eats other animals... it can enable "leaping" of problems - i.e. you are subjected to more distant contaminants, viruses, bacteria, etc. of the secondary prey.

As omnivores, although we can debate the ethics of meat-eating... our digestive system doesn't. However, in general, it's healthier and more natural to eat herbivores... which most "prey" animals are by nature. Of course, the other healthy advantage to not eating other predating carnivores: they help keep "shared" prey animals healthier by culling the herds. When we eat them... everything gets sicker as a result. Naturally, that includes the occasional pandemic virus mutation as well. :confused:

And while we're at it... BSE was caused by a similar issue (but even more of a crime against nature) and is a prime example of why you get even more problems when you force cannibalism on an herbivore population in the name of "progress". :facepalm:
 

JIW

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Sure, let's get rid of wild game markets. But A) The article is patently political ("China has no regard for the individual"; "China cannot be trusted") and B) it's a false premise that wet markets are the essential problem or that somehow another culture is to blame for being inferior. (Anybody remember Mad Cow in the très sophistiqué UK?) The problem is evolutionary biology that enables disease vectors to mutate. Alas, that will never change and new diseases are a fact of nature. This is a good place to start: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114494/

While the article is indeed political, the assertions that "China has no regard for the individual" and that "China cannot be trusted" are entirely descriptive even if unsubstantiated.

While not the fundamental cause, the wet markets are a great risk factors precisely because viruses can leap from live animals of one species to those of another and mutate that way creating novel diseases. Eliminating wet markets will not eliminate (novel) diseases being transmitted from animals to humans but significantly reduce the risk.

Further, inasmuch as the wet markets are cultural, regarding public health, Chinese culture is indeed inferior and this inferiority is a threat to the health of humanity.
 
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Laserjock

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digicidal

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I don’t get why people are still taking Cruises. :facepalm:
Two ships currently denied docking in Florida.
e.g. a couple friends were very disappointed their cruise was canceled 2 weeks ago. :facepalm:

Me either - although I never got it in the first place. Friends of my parents would take 4-5 every year - this year they took one in Jan-Feb! When we were all having dinner one night a few years ago, my wife asked them if they'd ever gotten sick... "oh sure" they said, "we get violently ill about every third one... but it's worth it!" :oops:

What do you say to that? Apparently some people love a "cheap" floating hotel so much they'll risk almost anything to experience it. My wife and I don't understand at all, but that's not saying much... we've considered flying to be such a frightening petri dish of humanity that it's relegated to emergency use only (and that's for business class).

Right now we're feeling the best we've felt since the 90s... we were made for this new world. I just wish no one had to get sick or die for it to finally arrive: no sports, no parades, no church, no school, no traffic, no meetings, etc. How the normal people of the world feel right now, is how we feel all the rest of the time - mandatory social distancing is our vacation! :cool:
 

Putter

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https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-isnt-saying-about-their-covid-19-projections

5 Key Facts Not Explained In White House COVID-19 Projections
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April 1, 20202:22 PM ET

NURITH AIZENMAN
President Trump and his top scientific advisers on the coronavirus task force gave a much-anticipated presentation Tuesday night, laying out the data behind the president's recent shift in tone regarding the outbreak, including his decision to extend national social distancing guidelines through April 30.
Specifically, officials pointed to a computer model released weeks earlier by Imperial College London that, at the time, predicted that if no action were taken to slow the spread of the virus, about 2.2 million people in the United States would die over the course of the outbreak.
Then administration officials described separate modeling that predicts that by imposing strict social distancing measures, the toll from the current wave of infections can be reduced to somewhere between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths.
Although officials implied that this estimate was based on the administration's own in-house modeling, they did not provide further details about those calculations. Instead, officials discussed a model from an outside group – the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, or IHME — which produced projections very similar to the administration's findings, according to Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator of the coronavirus task force.
NPR reached out to two researchers who helped put together IHME's model. We learned of four assumptions made by the model that administration officials did not mention.
Here's what those assumptions are, and why they matter.
The president's guidelines are not what makes the difference ...
IHME's modelers say they did not take into account the impact of the president's social distancing guidelines — first unveiled on March 16 as a 15-day plan, now extended through April 30. That's because the president's recommendations are not binding. And in states where governors haven't imposed strict social distancing rules of their own, it's not clear to what extent people are following the White House call to stay home as much as possible. The recent throng of vacationers on Florida's beaches certainly suggests that plenty of people are not heeding the president's guidelines
"Even if there's a national order, we have to follow what the state is doing," says Ali Mokdad, a professor of health metrics sciences at IHME. "People will follow the rules of their own state."
... state action is what matters
IHME's model forecasts the outcome for each state by taking into account not just which measures state officials have imposed, but also the date on which officials imposed the measures and how much transmission was already underway by that point, as measured by the number of COVID-19 deaths. The model also considers how strict the measures are, with the greatest weight given to states that have imposed all three of the following options: closing educational facilities, closing nonessential businesses and issuing stay-at-home orders. The model is then adjusted based on what portion of a state's residents those various rules have been applied to. For instance, are the measures limited to certain cities or counties? Or are they statewide rules?

Governors that haven't issued statewide social distancing rules will do so in a week.
A number of governors haven't issued any of the strict social distancing rules the model takes into account. Other governors have only issued such rules for select areas of their state.
IHME's model assumes that seven days from now, all states that haven't already done so will impose the full range of social distancing rules statewide.
States will keep the social distancing rules in place through June 1
By contrast, Trump's presidential guidelines only apply through April 30. The president has indicated that he may extend that date as the situation warrants.
But at the briefing Tuesday, officials did not specify how long their modeling assumes social distancing measures would remain in place. Chris Murray, IHME's director, says the modeling team is working on a projection for exactly "what sort of rebound we will see," if social distancing was eased after April 30 instead of June 1. But he says there's no question it would be significant.
If and when the current wave of infections is suppressed, the U.S. will remain vulnerable.
Technically this is not an assumption in the model, but a prediction: Notwithstanding the large number of people who will get sick and even die over the roughly three months the model projects it will take to snuff the current wave of infections, the vast majority of Americans will not contract the virus. This means they will not have immunity against future waves of infection, which could be sparked by cases in the U.S. that remained undetected or by infected visitors from countries where the virus is still circulating widely.
"Our rough guess is that come June, at least 95% of the U.S. will still be susceptible," says IHME's Murray. "That means, of course, it can come right back. And so then we really need to have a robust strategy in place to not have a second wave."


I made an earlier post that the numbers given seemed questionable and that they seemed very conservative in terms of deaths. This seems to indicate that they played fast and loose with the projections. To me the most important facts are that it has to continue through May at least and that even after that they estimate that only 5% will have been exposed.
 

Wes

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Nothing suggests that "they" played fast and loose with the projections

Instead, the epidemiological models used can vary widely based on what assumptions are made regarding both contact likelihood and transmissibility given a contact. The former is subject to public compliance with orders. The latter is still not well known. Thus, you will get a wide range of model outputs.

By way of analogy, you can think of this as predicting the course of a hurricane - a number of models are used with different facts considered, and different factor weightings, hence a wide range of the colored straws on the map.
 

Doodski

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Went grocery shopping today. All "Staples" are limited quantity. Meat was limited to ~$40.00 total, pasta sauce 4 quarts, eggs 2 dozen etc etc. So I have to make 3 trips for the month rather than one big trip. Had to stock up on Kleenex because the toilet paper was sold out. Seems counter intuitive but three shopping trips this month it will be. Thankfully I also got a quart of sippin rye. :D Laying low and staying home.
 
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andymok

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Re Wet Market inferior culture or not

It's just bad practice...you just don't eat another random mammal in sashimi......
 
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scott wurcer

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Re Wet Market inferior culture or not

It's just bad practice...you just don't eat another mammal in sashimi......

I agree totally about the bad practice but traditionally the Chinese eat virtually no meat raw.
 

Doodski

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Only barbarians with "inferior cultures" do that:
- Carpaccio
- Steak tartare
- Kibeh
- Ossenworst
- Mett/Hackepeter
If it's not well bled and cooked till sterile I don't eat it and that includes fish and other seafood stuff. No reasons other than I don't like wurms and stuff like that.
 
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