What volume level do you use for classical music? Loud or quiet? What are your opinions regarding relaxation and volume?

[Petronius]

Colleagues
I have been asked about levels I would use for relaxation, and I'm not sure how to respond.
Relaxation is not active listening and I am an active listener, however I see the point. Sometimes its nice to have musical wall paper
to fill the void, and if that is what what some want, well that's cool. Do it. Me, I can't do that as I get drawn in to what ever is on the radio.
I know I'm a hard case.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is there supposed to be a large quantity of bass/low frequency response?

Stravinsky, Rite of Spring

Linear (voltage level) and Decibel graphs:

What (mainly) are the peaks?

I played a "calibrated" drum solo here onece (for a few seconds)

Got 116.9dB peak at the listening position.

Sounded like somebody was taking a baseball bat to the speakers.

Sounded good, though.

This piece isn't to everyone's liken, though.

Did The Rite of Spring really spark a riot?

No art scandal is so scandalous as the 1913 premiere of The Rite of Spring, which descended into riot - or so the story goes.

www.bbc.com

 

[Titurel]

Colleagues
I have been asked about levels I would use for relaxation, and I'm not sure how to respond.
Relaxation is not active listening and I am an active listener, however I see the point. Sometimes its nice to have musical wall paper
to fill the void, and if that is what what some want, well that's cool. Do it. Me, I can't do that as I get drawn in to what ever is on the radio.
I know I'm a hard case.

Hardly a hard case. I put on news programs or reality shows if I need masking I can easily (and productively) ignore. Music, even in genres I abhor, is almost impossible for me to ignore.

 

[Robin L]

Stravinsky, Rite of Spring

Linear (voltage level) and Decibel graphs:

View attachment 373790

What (mainly) are the peaks?

I played a "calibrated" drum solo here onece (for a few seconds)

Got 116.9dB peak at the listening position.

Sounded like somebody was taking a baseball bat to the speakers.

Sounded good, though.

This piece isn't to everyone's liken, though.

Did The Rite of Spring really spark a riot?

No art scandal is so scandalous as the 1913 premiere of The Rite of Spring, which descended into riot - or so the story goes.

www.bbc.com

It wasn't the Music at the Rite of Spring premiere that started the riot as much as the choreography. Crude looking stuff (deliberately) that tweaked the sensibilities of the tastemakers in the audience.

 

[RayDunzl]

It wasn't the Music at the Rite of Spring premiere that started the riot as much as the choreography. Crude looking stuff (deliberately) that tweaked the sensibilities of the tastemakers in the audience.

Reproduction of the original in 1987

 

[GoDawgs]

Reproduction of the original in 1987

Is this on Blue ray yet?

 

[Jim Taylor]

I apologize for posting to this thread late, but I was a little conflicted when I thought about the subject.

I have two types of recordings; 1) stuff I really, really like and 2) stuff that is OK, but .... well, kinda meh. When I listen at background level, I listen to the meh selections. At that point, the classification of classical, rock, folk, Latin or gospel doesn't really matter.
However, when I come across one of the selections that I really, really like, one that grabs me and doesn't let go, then I can't listen at background level. I have to turn it up, abandoning what I'm doing and reveling in the music. Again, it makes no difference which genre of music it happens to be.

So as much as I like Classical music, it's far, far more important that the selection to which I'm listening is one that reaches out and grabs me, for whatever reason.

Then my wife and maybe the neighbors hate me. Thank goodness for headphones!

Jim

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Stravinsky, Rite of Spring

Linear (voltage level) and Decibel graphs:

View attachment 373790

What (mainly) are the peaks?

I played a "calibrated" drum solo here onece (for a few seconds)

Got 116.9dB peak at the listening position.

Sounded like somebody was taking a baseball bat to the speakers.

Sounded good, though.

This piece isn't to everyone's liken, though.

Did The Rite of Spring really spark a riot?

No art scandal is so scandalous as the 1913 premiere of The Rite of Spring, which descended into riot - or so the story goes.

www.bbc.com

I love the story of the audience response. The piece sounds tame compared to what came after in the next 100 plus years.

 

[Titurel]

I love the story of the audience response. The piece sounds tame compared to what came after in the next 100 plus years.

As pointed out elsewhere (earlier?), the loud negative response was predominantly to the choreography (and the costumes). Considering the relationship between the "stage door Johnnys and "Le petit rats" (corps de ballet), such raucousness was inevitable. The music itself was not all that challenging, except perhaps metrically. The war on functional/common practice harmony was already decades old. I do agree that Rite of Spring sounds tame compared to the piles of the drek that followed it, but a great amount of challenging but still comprehensible music followed as well. (A long serious discussion of this might be attempted elsewhere.)

 

[ElJaimito]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I apologise if repeating stuff. Re the OP's question:

There's so many "depends" conditioning any answer here. By "classical" we can mean 18thC or 21st. We can mean a full orchestra, a lieder performance or solo cello.

I - as a player - prefer when listening to have an audio representation that is close to what I would hear in a good seat in an actual performance.

A full 19thC orchestra can output around 67 acoustic watts (given speakers of around 2% efficiency, that would require 3.5 kW of electrical power to equal, and that's on the low side for a stadium system). An orchestral bass drum can do 25 acoustic watts at 30 or 40 Hz. Obviously subject to so many conditionals that are hard to quantise, this can produce peak levels of around 100-105 dBC at a seat in an optimal position. Some halls are louder than others.

In a home situation (or small studio control room!), this level feels uncomfortably loud, so for realistic performance of full orchestral music I prefer peaks of around 89 to 92 dBC, and a bit lower is fine too - my studio is calibrated to 86 dbC.

For a piano quartet, typically performed in a chamber, the peak level is a couple of dB lower, and so should the home level be. A solo cello should just touch the edge of discomfort at full bent.

No, this is not listening to classical music to relax. I never do that, (music overwhelms me, it doesn't relax me!) but I know many do. That is not listening to the music, the purpose is other. In that case set it so it relaxes you. I have written music for therapeutic purposes and some of that is in an ambient style. In that music there should NOT be anything to overly attract the attention, so it is designed to be performed at a level that is beyond subliminal but not at all loud.

Horse, course, etc.

A few references:

https://www.static.tu.berlin/fileadmin/www/10002020/Dokumente/Abschlussarbeiten/KraemerJohannes_MagA.pdf

Some Data on Orchestral Instruments

Note: not https

For interest:

https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2015/01/epn2015461p15.pdf

 

[Titurel]

We've seen a number of claims about sound levels measured at some undefined listening point or in one case at a preferred orchestra seat (10th row). While not doubting the sincerity of these contributors, I have difficulty accepting the claims, as they suggest a performing environment (the musician's workplace) that OSHA would have difficulty sanctioning. In other words, the volume levels on stage would be capable in short order of doing permanent hearing damage. This was not my experience as a performing musician for 40 years. I do suffer a bit of tinnitus and my hearing takes a nose dive above 8K, but that's not uncommon in my age group. Yes a Trombone can produce c. 114db when vigorously excited, but that's on axis at minimal distance, a position where no sane person would ever stand (or stand for very long).

What am I missing here? Try calculating the volume at the conductor's podium that corresponds to a 105db reading approximately 30 feet away in row 10.

 

[Robin L]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I apologise if repeating stuff. Re the OP's question:

There's so many "depends" conditioning any answer here. By "classical" we can mean 18thC or 21st. We can mean a full orchestra, a lieder performance or solo cello.

Having stocked the bins of a number of LP/CD stores for many years, my experience is that "Classical" music extends back to the Middle Ages. At least as regards the offerings from the record companies. Think Hildegarde von Bingen or Perotin. This also means that the quiet end of the scale goes much lower than the averages of even solo chamber music of the 18th century. Think of lute recordings or of clavichord.

As regards peak levels for louder music, my ears are sufficiently aged to have a nasty reaction when the levels go up, so my current upper limit with recorded music is in the vicinity of 80db.

 

[ElJaimito]

We've seen a number of claims about sound levels measured at some undefined listening point or in one case at a preferred orchestra seat (10th row). While not doubting the sincerity of these contributors, I have difficulty accepting the claims, as they suggest a performing environment (the musician's workplace) that OSHA would have difficulty sanctioning. In other words, the volume levels on stage would be capable in short order of doing permanent hearing damage. This was not my experience as a performing musician for 40 years. I do suffer a bit of tinnitus and my hearing takes a nose dive above 8K, but that's not uncommon in my age group. Yes a Trombone can produce c. 114db when vigorously excited, but that's on axis at minimal distance, a position where no sane person would ever stand (or stand for very long).

What am I missing here? Try calculating the volume at the conductor's podium that corresponds to a 105db reading approximately 30 feet away in row 10.

Royal Opera House loses appeal over viola player's hearing

The Royal Opera House failed to protect a musician's hearing during rehearsal, the Court of Appeal rules.

www.bbc.com

 

[Descartes]

Colleagues I'd like to weigh in but first a bit about me,
Classically educated musician, (composition and trombone performance )
Worked in retail and commercial (pro ) audio,
Was an independent producer and or 'host" on several classical format radio stations,
I don't do background listening. You're either listening or you're not
Sold wine and beer to earn enough to live on
Cranky

Our late colleague John Eargle who among other things was the chief recording engineer for the Seattle Symphony told me that he designed his recordings
for the listener who listened at concert hall level. To do other wise was doing simply not giving fidelity to the important aspect of dynamic range in music.
So as stated in the brass cheer, "Higher Faster Louder, Bruckner, Strauss and Mahler.

Hope you’re protecting your hearing!

What's that you say?

 

[ElJaimito]

Royal Opera House loses appeal over viola player's hearing

The Royal Opera House failed to protect a musician's hearing during rehearsal, the Court of Appeal rules.

www.bbc.com

OTOH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5926315/

It's very hard to establish a benchmark

 

[Descartes]

75 - 80db is my sweet spot!

 

[ElJaimito]

Having stocked the bins of a number of LP/CD stores for many years, my experience is that "Classical" music extends back to the Middle Ages. At least as regards the offerings from the record companies. Think Hildegarde von Bingen or Perotin. This also means that the quiet end of the scale goes much lower than the averages of even solo chamber music of the 18th century. Think of lute recordings or of clavichord.

As regards peak levels for louder music, my ears are sufficiently aged to have a nasty reaction when the levels go up, so my current upper limit with recorded music is in the vicinity of 80db.

"By "classical" we can mean 18thC or 21st." That was inclusive not exclusive. For me, I'm referring to classical music as being music starting from the classical period, rather than the informal "not jazz not pop not rock" definition. The 19th/20thC classical/romantic orchestra was about as big as it gets, think Bruckner or Havergal Brian or Schoenberg or Mahler or Berlioz, so that's about as loud as the orchestra does get. Having set a version of the Seikilos theme, I am happy to agree that we can go back much further!

 

[Titurel]

Royal Opera House loses appeal over viola player's hearing

The Royal Opera House failed to protect a musician's hearing during rehearsal, the Court of Appeal rules.

www.bbc.com

Royal Opera House loses appeal over viola player's hearing

The Royal Opera House failed to protect a musician's hearing during rehearsal, the Court of Appeal rules.

www.bbc.com

Thanks for the link. This situation is regrettable, but hardly typical. None the less, the ROH should be held accountable for either having an undersized orchestra pit (crowding) or for arranging the ensemble with no regard for real world concerns, like the potential for hearing damage immediately in front of the brass. Still, I doubt the claims of noise in excess of 130 db.

 

[ElJaimito]

Thanks for the link. This situation is regrettable, but hardly typical. None the less, the ROH should be held accountable for either having an undersized orchestra pit (crowding) or for arranging the ensemble with no regard for real world concerns, like the potential for hearing damage immediately in front of the brass. Still, I doubt the claims of noise in excess of 130 db.

Another more recent reference: https://www.actsafe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Noise-and-hearing-loss-in-musicians-Report-PDF.pdf

This again refers to average orchestral levels of 100dbA (C would be higher). Sorry for the scattered posts, I had to search out the references. And yes, 130dB any scale does seem unlikely!

 

[Sokel]

Bedřich Smetana's - Má Vlast: Vltava,at modest-to-loud levels (as it should to reveal all it's glory)

Noise floor at 38dB (A) in my room,(A) weighting for average (purple) and max level (yellow) ,(Z) weighting for peaks (red) :

Not a very demanding work,there are others with greater variation between levels and finding the sweet spot is not always easy.

(the small variation between average and max is because of the (A) weighting obviously,it would be far greater with (C) .