What speaker brands would you consider better than Revel?

[NTK]

I wonder why JBL M2 is passive?

JBL M2 is active.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

What Alice said. If i could take back the years of "heavy", i would. My one regret of working out >45 years

The young ones will not listen. Neither did I when young. One does not realize importance of hip joint until failure. Before surgery I remember wondering if I should hobble to the bathroom after filling up the gas tank. Sometimes just held it.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

The young ones will not listen. Neither did I when young. One does not realize importance of hip joint until failure. Before surgery I remember wondering if I should hobble to the bathroom after filling up the gas tank. Sometimes just held it.

I lifted heavy in my early 20's, now I have a herniated disc and bulging disc issue in my lumbar spine (L3/L4 bulging, L4/L5 is herniated 13mm and pushing on sciatic nerve, and L5/S1 is bulging) that I have been dealing with for the past 10 years. This past month has been super bad. I literally got stuck trying to bend over and pick something up and had to have my wife come over and help me. Also took me like 30 minutes to be able to get in a position that would allow me to roll out of bed. Luckily the steriod shots helped again.

Moral of the story, If I could go back and not lift heavy I would. I am in love with resistance band training now. I use these and they are awesome: https://www.amazon.com/SUNPOW-Resis...0&sr=1-1-80ba0e26-a1cd-4e7b-87a0-a2ffae3a273c

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I lifted heavy in my early 20's, not I have a herniated disc and bulging disc issue in my lumbar spine that I have been dealing with for the past 10 years. This past month has been super bad. I literally got stuck trying to bend over and pick something up and had to have my wife come over and help me. Also took me like 30 minutes to be able to get in a position that would allow me to roll out of bed. Luckily the steriod shots helped again.

Moral of the story, If I could go back and not lift heavy I would. I am in love with resistance band training now. I use these and they are awesome: https://www.amazon.com/SUNPOW-Resis...0&sr=1-1-80ba0e26-a1cd-4e7b-87a0-a2ffae3a273c

Before surgery, my 5' 1" wife got the groceries out of the trunk. I agree. Should have lifted moderately and used more dumbbells. Takes pressure off the joints. I have warned younger ones to be careful running excessively for long distances. I have old marathon friends who can't run run to the bathroom.

 

[mtmpenn]

This thread is way off topic, but I will add to it:

1) Nice rack

2) With respect to joint health: I have a Squatmax MD belt squat in my garage and I really like it.

My back will no longer tolerate traditional squats or deadlifts, but I can work my legs hard on there. It takes up less space than a leg press, requires fewer plates (because of the band tension), and my back normally feels better after I use it. I am a huge fan.

 

[617]

This thread is way off topic, but I will add to it:

1) Nice rack

2) With respect to joint health: I have a Squatmax MD belt squat in my garage and I really like it.

My back will no longer tolerate traditional squats or deadlifts, but I can work my legs hard on there. It takes up less space than a leg press, requires fewer plates (because of the band tension), and my back normally feels better after I use it. I am a huge fan.

Another good option is the trap bar. By changing your foot position you can get a deadlift-like and squat-like movement, no rack needed.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

JBL M2 is active.

Better check the specs. Requires an amp.

 

[NTK]

Better check the specs. Requires an amp.

The M2 speaker is only part of an active 2-way speaker system. The M2 speaker itself does not have a cross-over, and requires an amplifier each for the tweeter and woofer. In the standard configuration each speaker is driven by a 2-channel Crown amp, which has built-in DSP for cross-over and EQ. It is not a typical all-in-one active system.

From the M2 brochure.

[Edit] The advantage of this system is that the speaker drivers and enclosure are separated from the electronics. You may implement the cross-over, EQ and amplifiers whichever way you desired. With regard to electronics, it is future proof.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

The M2 speaker is only part of an active 2-way speaker system. The M2 speaker itself does not have a cross-over, and requires an amplifier each for the tweeter and woofer. In the standard configuration each speaker is driven by a 2-channel Crown amp, which has built-in DSP for cross-over and EQ. It is not a typical all-in-one active system.

From the M2 brochure.
View attachment 99367

[Edit] The advantage of this system is that the speaker drivers and enclosure are separated from the electronics. You may implement the cross-over, EQ and amplifiers whichever way you desired. With regard to electronics, it is future proof.

It is still a passive speaker by definition. Can be purchased without the $6000 amp and is described by Crown dealers as a passive speaker. All passive speakers are future proof regarding amplification.

 

[NTK]

It is still a passive speaker by definition. Can be purchased without the $6000 amp and is described by Crown dealers as a passive speaker. All passive speakers are future proof regarding amplification.

I thought you were wonder why the M2 is "passive"

I wonder why JBL M2 is passive?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I thought you were wonder why the M2 is "passive"

Pros use "passive" speakers for a reason. Anytime I hear product described as a "system" I run for the hills. This includes overpriced plastic windows, vacuum cleaners, special tile underlayment add ons, latest exterior cladding products, granite countertop "sealants," etc. Family manufactured granite for 80 years. Oil will penetrate half an inch.

 

[617]

It is still a passive speaker by definition. Can be purchased without the $6000 amp and is described by Crown dealers as a passive speaker. All passive speakers are future proof regarding amplification.

It's not much of a speaker considering it has no crossover in the configuration you describe. No passive filters. No pcb with caps and inductors. It is by any reasonable definition an active speaker.
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[richard12511]

M2 is definitely an active speaker, but I do like that the amps are separate.

Also, @Alice of Old Vincennes , I don’t understand what you mean when you say ~“there’s a reason pros use passive speakers”? It seems to me that the “pros” overwhelmingly favor active designs (Genelec, Neumann, JBL, Dynaudio, QTC, etc.). It seems to me that passives are only heavily favored in the consumer market.

Perhaps we have a different definition of “passive”?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

M2 is definitely an active speaker, but I do like that the amps are separate.

Also, @Alice of Old Vincennes , I don’t understand what you mean when you say ~“there’s a reason pros use passive speakers”? It seems to me that the “pros” overwhelmingly favor active designs (Genelec, Neumann, JBL, Dynaudio, QTC, etc.). It seems to me that passives are only heavily favored in the consumer market.

Perhaps we have a different definition of “passive”?

I suppose. I was referring to professionals who must transport systems out of the sound studio. Probably the vast majority. The M2 is not a near field monitor. All of these tiny overpriced active monitors are never used unless you listen in a studio 3 or 4 feet away. They dsp a flat curve. I'll take a top heavy 3 way passive any day, unless I am listening in a closet.

 

[617]

I suppose. I was referring to professionals who must transport systems out of the sound studio. Probably the vast majority. The M2 is not a near field monitor. All of these tiny overpriced active monitors are never used unless you listen in a studio 3 or 4 feet away. They dsp a flat curve. I'll take a top heavy 3 way passive any day, unless I am listening in a closet.

Not many professional passive designs being made to my knowledge, either far field or near. JBL lsr 6332 may have been among the last passive professional solutions from JBL and is a classic 3 way as you describe.

Westlake audio offers passive monitors but they are decidedly retro. There are a few companies that offer active speakers without dsp, like atc and a swiss company I can't remember the name of. Augsperger and Meyer are all active dsp.

I actually prefer the simplicity of passive designs but if you need accuracy at anything resembling a reasonable cost, dsp is the only way. I'm sympathetic to being suspicious of all in one systems but with reliable amplification and signal.processing being commodified it is the future, and the present.

 

[Lorenzo74]

Thanks! What are the disadvantages to place the subs next to the mains? The subs are SVS sb12nsd. I am contemplating between Genelec 7360 (which is not available in white) but integrates well with my monitors or Arendal 1723 1V which is available in white but have to manage sub management/ integration via minidsp. Here are my living room photos

https://imgur.com/a/TaaZzir

.

if you measure the step response you’ll notice how the floor reflection will be high in level (hard floor) and near in time (speaker near floor) to the direct sound.
this will mask the direct sound and potentially vanish all the advantages you might have with such great speakers. Measure it and you’ll immediately notice what I’m referring to. It’s like having a mirror speaker below the floor. To solve this a thick carpet in front of speakers and rise them up at ear level (they are 2ways, not good above tweeter level, must be on axis).
this is much more relevant than where subs are located.
Minidsp is a great and convenient tool to fix time delay, level, and eq (with Diraclive you have it all)
Hope this help.
My Best
L.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Not many professional passive designs being made to my knowledge, either far field or near. JBL lsr 6332 may have been among the last passive professional solutions from JBL and is a classic 3 way as you describe.

Westlake audio offers passive monitors but they are decidedly retro. There are a few companies that offer active speakers without dsp, like atc and a swiss company I can't remember the name of. Augsperger and Meyer are all active dsp.

I actually prefer the simplicity of passive designs but if you need accuracy at anything resembling a reasonable cost, dsp is the only way. I'm sympathetic to being suspicious of all in one systems but with reliable amplification and signal.processing being commodified it is the future, and the present.

Earth to Mars. Tell me who buys pro amps? Churches, bands, clubs, bars, restaurants. Look up JBL pro speakers for that big venue crowd. Dsp is room correction. JBL M2 uses a separately purchased pro crown amp. If you think pro dealers make money with active monitors to that crowd, think again. I noticed my private club powers it's big venue with Crown XLS. What are they thinking?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I suppose. I was referring to professionals who must transport systems out of the sound studio. Probably the vast majority. The M2 is not a near field monitor. All of these tiny overpriced active monitors are never used unless you listen in a studio 3 or 4 feet away. They dsp a flat curve. I'll take a top heavy 3 way passive any day, unless I am listening in a closet.

You're wrong on so many levels.

 

[Sancus]

Earth to Mars. Tell me who buys pro amps? Churches, bands, clubs, bars, restaurants. Look up JBL pro speakers for that big venue crowd. Dsp is room correction. JBL M2 uses a separately purchased pro crown amp. If you think pro dealers make money with active monitors to that crowd, think again. I noticed my private club powers it's big venue with Crown XLS. What are they thinking?

This just seems like two different types of "pro" are being discussed here. When you consider that most businesses of that type literally won't ever change their equipment unless it dies(I've seen 30+ year old PA speakers in bars), sound quality is hardly high on the list of priorities. What they're looking for is cheap, reliable, and loud. And that's exactly what you get with a passive speaker and a Crown amp.

That type of "pro" doesn't have any relation to the studio/sound production type of "pro".

 

[LTig]

Earth to Mars. Tell me who buys pro amps? Churches, bands, clubs, bars, restaurants. Look up JBL pro speakers for that big venue crowd. Dsp is room correction. JBL M2 uses a separately purchased pro crown amp. If you think pro dealers make money with active monitors to that crowd, think again. I noticed my private club powers it's big venue with Crown XLS. What are they thinking?

Mars to Earth: I think you mistake active, passive and powered.

• A passive speakers has a passive xover and requires a single power amp to feed it. This power amp may be built-in but it does not change the speaker to an active one.
• An active speaker has an active xover and requires 2 or more power amps to feed it's drivers directly. Those power amps may not be built-in (JBL M2) but this does not change the speaker to a passive one.