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What might a "sensible" vinyl playback setup look like?

Like baseball cards. I never understood someone attaching any value at all to a thin piece of cardboard with ink on it.
Me neither, but if I found myself in possession of a Mickey Mantle rookie year card, I'd treat it like a treasure long enough to get it into the hands of an eager buyer. If someone feels it's "worth" $50K-100K, who am I to say no?
 
Mine of course. (Rega P3 with AT VM95 ML paired with a Waxwing phono preamp feeding a DAC via toslink.
Sounds like fun, but I was thinking $500 would be a stretch, and do I even want to explore $1700+ for vinyl playback hardware in 2024? :p
 
Sounds like fun, but I was thinking $500 would be a stretch, and do I even want to explore $1700+ for vinyl playback hardware in 2024? :p

Fluance RT81 $249
Ortofon 2M blue pre-mounted in a headshell $229
Fosi Audio Box X4 phono preamp $79.95

$557.95 from Amazon.

You could always "upgrade" later if you felt the need, but that combo gives actually gives really good sound for a good price.
 
Speaking of vinyl, a technical aspect that perhaps the new generations don't know: the size of the grooves. LP albums are designed to store several minutes of music (up to 20mins) and for this reason the grooves must necessarily be very narrow, sacrificing dynamics of the recording . For this exact reason, 12" records were invented: a 7-minute vinyl with a single song the size of an LP. They are also called "mix version" and it is (was in the past) the version to play in the club: due to the wider grooves, a bigger soundsystem has the possibility of reproducing greater dynamics from the recording.
What I'm getting at is that the same track played from an LP or a 12” will sound completely different: looking for maximum performance from vinyl you have to play 12 inches records
 
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But have you tested this, or are you assuming? :p:p:p

Think we've hit a blind spot here, where either folks ditched their vinyl and never looked back, or dared not venture into the more toy-like segments of the market because, I don't know why.

Re: Post #13, I think VWestlife gave some pretty compelling evidence that higher tracking forces, even inexpensive piezo cartridges, have minimal effect on record wear, provided that the records are kept clean. So I think we can dispense with the argument that Crosley et al as a class are record-killers. And while the short tone arms will introduce some tracing error, how much audible effect this ultimately has ..?
No, I haven't tested, just appreciate the 120's features and build quality. If cost is really an object for someone, rather than the lesser AT tables, I'd vote for a good-working-order Yamaha, Kenwood or Technics table... I have three 90s Yamaha tables that have held up very well and still play well. Nice for auto-return capability. And, I still love my B&O 1700 table, it soldiers on...I'm sparing of use with it because I don't want to pay for a SoundSmith cartridge, so I nurse the 20EN along...
 
Sounds like fun, but I was thinking $500 would be a stretch, and do I even want to explore $1700+ for vinyl playback hardware in 2024? :p
More like $1100 - I got the P3 second hand (in the UK where they are lower cost anyway) for about $600 (£470), and the waxwing is $500.

But I take your point.
 
Fluance RT81 $249
Ortofon 2M blue pre-mounted in a headshell $229
Fosi Audio Box X4 phono preamp $79.95

$557.95 from Amazon.

You could always "upgrade" later if you felt the need, but that combo gives actually gives really good sound for a good price.
Could use the AT VM95ML as another excellent cartridge alternative, save $70, and come in on the $500 budget. (Or drop the shell off the ortofon and save $40)

EDIT : Better yet, the Fluance comes with an ATVM95E already fitted. The ML stylus can be bought for $150 and swapped in (plug and play - cartridge body is the same) saving and additional $10 without the need to swap the cartridge.
 
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Don't spend so much for a cartridge, buy an eq instead.
 
Yes, you say it yourself, the correction is limited. I have an old Marantz eq I think, it's on the medium that we have to intervene, that's where the "incredible differences" between cells at 50 and 15,000 are made. I have 4 phono inputs purchased at least expensive but in major well-known brands, including the basic Pro-ject and one from a brand of cables, the other DIY. The last one purchased in black to go with the other elements comes from a brand that sadly disappeared after its purchase. Their signal/noise ratio alone in the most unfavorable conditions (so for MM) is double that of a vinyl...
 
Guys (and all three of you ladies), have you not been reading Stereophile and TAS? If you don't spend at least $30,000 on your vinyl setup, IT IS WORTHLESS AND YOU ARE NOT AN AUDIOPHILE.

And if you CAN'T spend $30,000 on your vinyl setup, then you are just JEALOUS of those who can.

Sorry, I don't make the rules. I'm just reporting what people in the audio press have been telling me for the last 30 years. And they would know, right?
 
I recently revived vinyl LP live listening setup in my PC-DSP-Based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier stereo audio rig (ref. here).
- Revival of analog LP player (MC cartridge) in my DSP multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo system for real time on-the-fly vinyl LP listening (and digital recording, if needed): #688
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These posts thereafter would be also of your reference and interest;

- Inside of Audio-Technica AT-PEQ30 phono preamplifier, and successful DIY suppression of inaudible EMF (electro-magnetic field) interference noise: #697

- Another comparative listening, on-the-fly vinyl LP vs. Remastered CD: analog piano solo recorded in 1967: #722

- Another comparative listening; on-the-fly remastered vinyl LP vs. remastered CD: Bill Evans jazz piano trio, analog recorded in 1977; remastered (2021) vinyl LP (45-RPM 188-gram) vs. its CD release: #740
and,
- Summary of my motivations reviving vinyl TT (turntable) in DSP-based multichannel time-aligned multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio setup: #758, #1,262(remote thread)

By the way, you can find the latest setup of my multichannel audio system (as of June 26, 2024) in my post here;
The latest system setup of my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio rig, including updated startup/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences: as of June 26, 2024: #931
 
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I recently revived vinyl LP live listening setup in my PC-DSP-Based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier stereo audio rig (ref. here).
- Revival of analog LP player (MC cartridge) in my DSP multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo system for real time on-the-fly vinyl LP listening (and digital recording, if needed): #688

These posts thereafter would be also of your reference and interest;

- Inside of Audio-Technica AT-PEQ30 phono preamplifier, and successful DIY suppression of inaudible EMF (electro-magnetic field) interference noise: #697

- Another comparative listening, on-the-fly vinyl LP vs. Remastered CD: analog piano solo recorded in 1967: #722

- Another comparative listening; on-the-fly remastered vinyl LP vs. remastered CD: Bill Evans jazz piano trio, analog recorded in 1977; remastered (2021) vinyl LP (45-RPM 188-gram) vs. its CD release: #740

and,

- Summary of my motivations reviving vinyl TT (turntable) in DSP-based multichannel time-aligned multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio setup: #758, #1,262(remote thread)
Washing old LPs is a good way to get them to playable condition. I still have quite a few that never made it to CD.

But some of these have appeared on Spotify, and I’m going to start looking.
 
I'm probably wasting valuable ATP by bothering to type some thoughts on this topic, but type I shall -- with no false expectations of readership. ;)
Obviously all that follow are no more or less than my opinions. :)

The cult of the vinylista got cranked up (grasping at a mixed gramophone metaphor there, I am) after the heyday of LP records as a primary medium for music playback in the home, I'd opine. We were all pretty happy with carefully but not obsessively set up turntable/cartridge systems, with some tribal skirmishes ;) around low mass/springy (belt drive) platforms and arms/high compliance cartridges vs. more massive and stable platforms (DD, but also belt and, yes, even a few holdouts for idlers)/higher mass arms/low(er) compliance cartridges.

I won't deny that the various flavors of line contact or "hyperelliptical" stylus geometries (all of which, AFAIK, stem from development of cartridge/stylus systems to play CD-4 multiplex 4-channel LPs) had some impact in the pre-CD era. They (I think) benefit (indeed, they probably require) more careful setup and alignment than more forgiving stylus geometries.

I suspect that the retreat of album playing to niche status coupled with enhanced interest in the "hyper" stylus geometries has led us inexorably to the current somewhat overheated ;) obsessive approach to playing a record.

FWIW, I still don't get obsessive about it -- and there are more than a few records and record playing systems ;) around here. :rolleyes:



So - for anyone who's bothered to read this far, or for the TL/DR crowd ;) - my 2024 suggestion for listening to vinyls.

  • Get a Technics DD turntable -- modern or vintage, new or used, cheap(er)or expensive.
  • Get a good quality, reasonably priced medium-compliance MI or MM cartridge (or a lower-compliance, low output MC cartridge, if that really floats your boat!) -- I think any of the current brands/models are at least OK... even that $10 Audio-Technica AT3600 conical (sold under myriad brand names at a variety of price points via legitimate and less-legitimate sources).
  • Get a decent preamp/EQ. Spend as much or as little as your conscience dictates. Pro tip -- if one's really strapped for cash or suffering analysis paralysis, find a good old vintage hifi integrated amp or receiver that's cheap. It can be beat up (put it behind the nice components in one's rack!); the power amp section can be dysfunctional, it's OK. As long as its preamp section works, the built in phono preamp/EQ will work and you can get an equalized, line level signal from TAPE OUT. S/N won't be the best but (!) the phono preamps were important in those days, so the performance is likely to be surprisingly good -- yes, even in a 40 year old, unrestored component.
  • Obviously, a LOMC will require higher gain or an SUT if one decides that's where one wants to be. One more thing to worry about! ;)
  • Set up according to mfgr. recommendations and play yer rekkids. :)






... whatever... :D
 
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Estate sale Technics 1200 MkII. $175 with good AT cartridge. Perfect compromise between price and performance.

Exactly matches my taste for things that just work.
 
Guys (and all three of you ladies), have you not been reading Stereophile and TAS? If you don't spend at least $30,000 on your vinyl setup, IT IS WORTHLESS AND YOU ARE NOT AN AUDIOPHILE.

And if you CAN'T spend $30,000 on your vinyl setup, then you are just JEALOUS of those who can.

Sorry, I don't make the rules. I'm just reporting what people in the audio press have been telling me for the last 30 years. And they would know, right?
It’s exactly what the guy from phono phono in Berlin says. If a system is just about 10K€ its not worth his time to listen to it.
 
My starting point for vinyl systems is usually a new Rega P1 (both of my kids have one of those) and if the amp used doesn't already have a phono stage I buy one of the Cambridge Audio phono stages from Ebay.

If it needs to be cheaper then I'll go with something like a 2nd hand Project Debut III or an older 2nd hand Rega P2 (or one of the rebadged ones from the likes of Moth or Goldring) instead.

I'm currently listening to a Goldring GR1 (which is a Rega Planar 2) that came with a decent Goldring cartridge and a Rega RB250 arm for £135 from Ebay (the arm alone is worth most of that price). I've done a basic service on it and its sounding good and should be reliable. Does it sound as good as my LP12 - of course not. Is it enjoyable - most definitely yes.
 
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