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What makes high end processors sound better (or do they?)

Sal1950

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I did settle on the Denon and after tweaking with Audyssey I think my system sounds great. What am I missing?
In all likelihood, very little. There is a possibility that something quite a bit more expensive might bring some subtle improvements in sound quality,
and a lot more flexibility in features and configuration options. But if your currently pleased with the performance your getting there's no
reason to worry.
 

KGardner

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The "improvement in sound" that I am looking for in a "processor" over an AVR is the separation of channels and how the unit handles moving sound objects within the Atmos tracks. The reproduction of music at it's best would be a great feature of a processor also. My current AVR is an Onkyo TX-NR636 that has Atmos capability only due to a software upgrade. It has a pretty good Atmos/music playback, but I have to wonder how much better an Emotiva MC1 or the Tonewinner unit with power amps would be verses my AVR. Since there is literaly no one that has reviewed the MC1 yet has me wondering about it's true worthiness. Is the Emotiva MC1 a $1000 disappointment? I am hoping to buy one and the amps needed for my 5.1.2 system someday and see if separates are worth the money and hype. Now, all of the above is a great debate on gear, but that does leave out the audio mixing engineer's competance or the directors guidence or simply the low audio budget for the media. The best gear is just a fancy consumer of electricity without quality media to play on it.
 

Sal1950

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The "improvement in sound" that I am looking for in a "processor" over an AVR is the separation of channels and how the unit handles moving sound objects within the Atmos tracks. The reproduction of music at it's best would be a great feature of a processor also. My current AVR is an Onkyo TX-NR636 that has Atmos capability only due to a software upgrade. It has a pretty good Atmos/music playback, but I have to wonder how much better an Emotiva MC1 or the Tonewinner unit with power amps would be verses my AVR. Since there is literaly no one that has reviewed the MC1 yet has me wondering about it's true worthiness. Is the Emotiva MC1 a $1000 disappointment? I am hoping to buy one and the amps needed for my 5.1.2 system someday and see if separates are worth the money and hype. Now, all of the above is a great debate on gear, but that does leave out the audio mixing engineer's competance or the directors guidence or simply the low audio budget for the media. The best gear is just a fancy consumer of electricity without quality media to play on it.
I hate to say it but I would highly advise against Emotiva AV offerings. They have the worst reputation in the industry for having operational bugs that never get properly fixed.
 

dlaloum

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The "improvement in sound" that I am looking for in a "processor" over an AVR is the separation of channels and how the unit handles moving sound objects within the Atmos tracks. The reproduction of music at it's best would be a great feature of a processor also. My current AVR is an Onkyo TX-NR636 that has Atmos capability only due to a software upgrade. It has a pretty good Atmos/music playback, but I have to wonder how much better an Emotiva MC1 or the Tonewinner unit with power amps would be verses my AVR. Since there is literaly no one that has reviewed the MC1 yet has me wondering about it's true worthiness. Is the Emotiva MC1 a $1000 disappointment? I am hoping to buy one and the amps needed for my 5.1.2 system someday and see if separates are worth the money and hype. Now, all of the above is a great debate on gear, but that does leave out the audio mixing engineer's competance or the directors guidence or simply the low audio budget for the media. The best gear is just a fancy consumer of electricity without quality media to play on it.

If you have patience - wait for the Prepro flagship models from Onkyo...

However from my own past experience, the equivalent AVR models provide the same level of performance when used as a prepro - with the sole exception of lacking XLR balanced outputs.

In terms of clear seperation, and directional audio queues - the biggest difference I have heard in my system, has been the tuning with Dirac.

The thing that drew me to Dirac was having heard it at audio shows, in stereo setups - where the imaging, soundstage was clearly improved through its use.

Your speakers and room interaction have a far greater impact on perceived channel separation, than any of todays mid market and up level AVR circuits.... - which is to say, pretty much all the mid market AVR's and Prepro's will sound identical in terms of raw decoding - the differences will be in the amplification (speaker dependent, and if you are using the pre-outs, not relevant) - and in the Room EQ - and this last is the big one.

An Integra DRX 3.4 - can drive a 5.1.4 setup, has pre-outs, and is economical for a prepro with Dirac.
 

dlaloum

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any info about that?
Not really...

They have a history of recycling previous generation flagships and adding software features - so you could look at the Pioneer LX704/904 and Onkyo TX-RZ3400 (AVR) & PR-RZ5400 (Prepro)

Existing TOTL chassis use ClassD amps, they would presumably get Dirac, and at a minimum DLBC for integrating multiple subs, but there have been hints about new Dirac software... possibly the "Unison" that has been talked about for a number of years. And it would be nice if they included Auro3D... but there are no guarantees.

The previous generation chassis used AKM DAC's and those won't be available in mass produced quantities from the AKM factory until 4th Qtr this year - so the TOTL models may not be in stores until early 2023.

We do know that they reserved the model numbers (across all three brands) - and they were included in announcements about AVR's and Prepro's that support (or would be supporting) DTS PlayFi. - but given that they have yet to announce anything, all we have are guesses.

I would hop aboard a flagship model that had the new Dirac software.... (I don't think I would have any trouble reselling my Integra DRX 3.4... without losing much on the deal).
 

Vacceo

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If the rumor is correct, the other products from Sound United may get Dirac compatibility too, so that means Denon and Marantz on Dirac.

I hope this is the start of manufacturers becoming agnostic about room EQ, so you can use any software the companies are willing to provide.
 

KGardner

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If you have patience - wait for the Prepro flagship models from Onkyo...

However from my own past experience, the equivalent AVR models provide the same level of performance when used as a prepro - with the sole exception of lacking XLR balanced outputs.

In terms of clear seperation, and directional audio queues - the biggest difference I have heard in my system, has been the tuning with Dirac.

The thing that drew me to Dirac was having heard it at audio shows, in stereo setups - where the imaging, soundstage was clearly improved through its use.

Your speakers and room interaction have a far greater impact on perceived channel separation, than any of todays mid market and up level AVR circuits.... - which is to say, pretty much all the mid market AVR's and Prepro's will sound identical in terms of raw decoding - the differences will be in the amplification (speaker dependent, and if you are using the pre-outs, not relevant) - and in the Room EQ - and this last is the big one.

An Integra DRX 3.4 - can drive a 5.1.4 setup, has pre-outs, and is economical for a prepro with Dirac.
Thank you so much for replying to my post. Your views are sound. I should do more with room treatment and get all of the speakers in my room to match. I have been considering a mid-tier AVR instead of a processor due to the advice of a VP at one of the audio companies I am lucky enough to have had contact with. I like your suggestion of the Integra line with Dirac. The Denon X3700H also seems to be a good fit with the pre-outs I would like and enough power on the other internal amp channels for my small room and speakers. Besides, Amir has found the 3700 to be well built and performing. I do, however, still wonder about the Emotiva MC1 for my system. Yeah - FOMO sucks, but reality is reality. Thanks again and all the very best to you and yours.
 

KGardner

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I hate to say it but I would highly advise against Emotiva AV offerings. They have the worst reputation in the industry for having operational bugs that never get properly fixed.
Thank you. I've seen your view in many places. It's a bummer that we can't count on a small "family owned" USA company to be at least 95%. My hopes for Emotiva were higher than I guess they should be. Tech changes so fast it is hard for anyone to keep up. Since I'm a one man business owner it's impossible for me to follow the changes made in the welding machines I repair as closely as I should. All the best and please have a great day.
 

Vacceo

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Thank you. I've seen your view in many places. It's a bummer that we can't count on a small "family owned" USA company to be at least 95%. My hopes for Emotiva were higher than I guess they should be. Tech changes so fast it is hard for anyone to keep up. Since I'm a one man business owner it's impossible for me to follow the changes made in the welding machines I repair as closely as I should. All the best and please have a great day.
To be fair, tech change for audio going super fast is more on the software than on the hardware. A great passive speaker 30 years old is still great today if it´s well taken care of. Sure, it may not give you the SPL, dispersion or range that you want, but if it does, why can´t you keep using it on a new class D amp?

Room EQ has made massive steps, same for codecs, but that is software, not hardware.
 

dlaloum

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To be fair, tech change for audio going super fast is more on the software than on the hardware. A great passive speaker 30 years old is still great today if it´s well taken care of. Sure, it may not give you the SPL, dispersion or range that you want, but if it does, why can´t you keep using it on a new class D amp?

Room EQ has made massive steps, same for codecs, but that is software, not hardware.
I agree with you - with the following provisos...

SPL

40 Years ago there were plenty of very capable highly efficient speakers around - power / Watts were expensive, most people were running integrateds or receivers with 50W/ch or less... - and speakers were typically more efficient in terms of SPL/W than todays speakers. (Watts are a lot cheaper today than they were in the mid to late 20th century)

Dispersion

The design focus today tends to be different - look at things like the Bose 901's or the Sonab Carlson speakers, also the dipole designs like electrostatics - our market has always been more diverse than people give it credit for.... the overall market trends however are clear - and todays "mainstream" criteria are for a flat direct F/R and off centre F/R that varies "gently" from that ideal....

But yes - some of the speakers I used to sell in the mid 80's, are still in the top flight performance bracket today (Quad ESL63, Boston Acoustics A400...) - assuming they have aged gracefully (been looked after!).

If I had the space, I would still run an all Quad, Electrostatic 5.1 surround setup..... It barely fit in my room when I had it running, and then WAF kicked in... Sigh.
 
D

Deleted member 50971

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I’m talking about the Marantz HDAMS which do add additional distortion and a subjective “warmer” sound which many respected reviewers attribute to the lower SINAD than Denon.
Hi, I know this is a little bit of an older thread.

I’m not exactly sure that statement is correct, I think that the hdams “may” get a bad wrap. I’ve been wishing them away for a couple years now, but the Marantz SR8015 which supposedly has updated HDams is pushing 100 SINAD. To be honest I’m on the fence about them, and if Marantz gets their act together measurement wise I’m a buyer. What’s it going to take the bump the SINAD up to 100-105 like Denon? But I want the AVP, I have no use for all those RCA outputs or inboard amplification and I want XLR.

Speaking of Denon i’m hoping this is true;

 
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