What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?

[Pearljam5000]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?
Inspired by this guy's video that says the KH310 is boring lol

 

[mns3dhm]

Here are a few things I’d characterize as exciting:

1. I’m listening to music I’m very familiar with played through a speaker I’ve not listened to previously and thinking it is more revealing. In other words, hearing details in the music more clearly.
2. I have an opportunity to listen to a speaker that I’ve not heard previously that has been well reviewed (and hopefully measured) here ASR or elsewhere.
3. I have an opportunity to listen to a speaker I own or know well connected to other upstream audio components I am interested in.

 

[bluefuzz]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ?

Primarily the music playing thiough it I would think.

Distortion is often perceived as 'exciting' ...

The 'right' track played through the 'right' speakers in the 'right' room will always win out over a 'neutral' presentation. The problem is all the 'wrong' tracks and rooms and speakers. So neutral and undistorted wins out in the end.

 

[ChrisG]

Typical HiFi Showroom sound will often be called "exciting" at first listen, but can quickly become tiresome. Boosted HF and LF. The boosted HF particularly will give an extremely "detailed" sound, but it's false detail: a frequency response boost will make certain things stand out. This is obvious.

What's less obvious is that nominally-flat speakers can be "detailed", in that their nonlinear distortion (harmonic, IMD - anything not present in the original signal) is low, so the "noise floor" is also low. ie, you can listen into a recording and hear things going on 20-30dB down.
This isn't possible with a cheap Bluetooth speaker operating at 5% THD - there's too much mush which masks the low-level detail within the recording.


To address the question more directly, I'd say a sensible frequency response, extended LF and a large dynamic range available. Something that can do "punch" when called upon.
The last system I built that did that really well was a Faital 18XL1800 and a BMS 4592 per side. Tri-amped with a few kilowatts on-tap. Good fun.


With regards to the Neumanns, I haven't heard them. I suspect the relatively linear response would be unexciting for someone used to the Typical HiFi Showroom Sound.


Chris

 

[Heinrich]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?
Inspired by this guy's video that says the KH310 is boring lol

Despite the language barrier I see a conflict here. Can the speaker be isolated from the overall listening experience? So that a claim referring to the speaker alone could be made? If so, is it because the speaker is good, or bad? How much of good or bad would it need to overcome the music's contribution to the overall experience? If it is on the good side of things, is there some too good? Paradox!

 

[terryforsythe]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?

I find the following speaker characteristics that make a speaker exciting to listen to:

Low bass extension - can be supplemented with one or more properly integrated subwoofers, the more the merrier if covering a large area.

High dynamic range (measured as response linearity comparing various SPL levels to a base level)

Wide dispersion with consistant directivity (depicted in horizontal contour plot)

No significant peaks or dips in the frequency response

Low harmonic distortion

Low cabinet vibrations

High damping factor

No, or extremely low, inductor core losses (measured with a specialized power loss meter or using an oscilloscope).
Side note: I used to only use air core inductors in speakers I built, but now I am all active.

 

[Matt_Holland]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?
Inspired by this guy's video that says the KH310 is boring lol

SPL.
The louder the more exciting, assuming distortions are inaudible and in-room frequency response is wide and smooth/flat with excellent bass dynamics.

I’ve heard the KH310 and they are ridiculously linear, clean and zero fatiguing . Their narrow dispersion keep the sound stage quite tight and small compared to wider dispersion speakers that energise the room more. So for typical hifi systems I’d say a wide dispersion with excellent directivity profile is more exciting as the room contributes to the feeling of envelopment and “being there”.

 

[Dimitri]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?

It depends.
For this creative-click-bait-titling youtuber, a "flat" speaker is "boring. You can measure that.

Should a speaker BE "exciting"? probably not.

 

[Matt_Holland]

As well as creating a false impression of detail, I think ‘showroom’ sound frequency response curves also act as a ‘loudness’ contour allowing hifi speakers to sound loud, I.e. exciting at more modest average SPLs.

Off topic, but the infamous bat curve response shape not only sounds loud, but I theory is achieved with simpler crossover designs that eschew baffles step correction and tweeter padding.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Imagine taking that KH 310 and using a graphic EQ, put a 3 db bump at 80 hz and another at 2.4 khz. It would sound a bit more exciting. It would sound better on some material. So concentrate on that ignoring something that is worse. It might well seem like it adds a little energy, excitement and that little something extra. Overall however it likely pushes just as much source material over the top in those same ways.

 

[MattHooper]

It’s a pretty vague question, but I think people already given some good answers anyway.

And as has already been pointed out, this type of question has to separate the loudspeaker from the music. I mean, people can get excited by the music, they love just listening to a laptop or a smart speaker. So can I. So obviously we’re talking about turning our attention to the performance of loudspeaker in terms of what it adds to the experience.

On a strictly personal level, for me it’s tonality/timbre first. If a speaker doesn’t sound “ right” in that respect to my ears, then I get bored pretty quickly even if it has outstanding attributes in other ways, such as soundstaging imaging detail dynamics…

 

[Jim Taylor]

In the first place, what makes a speaker "exciting" varies from person to person. Although it can be measured, it is measured once for that one person only. If you had 100 different people, I suppose it's technically possible to have 100 measurements that are all different.

Secondly, I have observed quite a few people who buy a speaker that they say is "exciting" or "involving" only to become disenchanted after about a year or so. The brain seems to make a long-term comparison between poorly reproduced music (especially voice) and the natural sounds around us, and point out the difference ... eventually.

Lastly, there is the use case. Does the user want to listen to the speaker, or do they want to listen to the music? Big difference.

As for this particular video, I think @Dimitri is correct: it's just click-bait.

 

[uwotm8]

I’m listening to music I’m very familiar with played through a speaker I’ve not listened to previously and thinking it is more revealing. In other words, hearing details in the music more clearly

This is a required technical part which servers the excitement: for me it starts when speakers better convey the emotional charge of the music and allow the meaning embedded in it to be revealed. The aspect of immersion means a lot a s well - the LESS "speaker sound" is noticeable (zero in ideal case) the more exciting it is, when you enjoy the pure musical performance instead of thinking about bass depth, air and coloration. That said, MBL omnipolars remain the king of all speakers I've heard.

I’ve heard the KH310 and they are ridiculously linear, clean and zero fatiguing . Their narrow dispersion keep the sound stage quite tight and small compared to wider dispersion speakers that energise the room more. So for typical hifi systems I’d say a wide dispersion with excellent directivity profile is more exciting as the room contributes to the feeling of envelopment and “being there”

Makes me glad again that I avoided buying KH120 II w/o listening - all in all Neumann seems to be the speakers for those who like "speakerish" sound. However, would be nice to hear them and 310 as well. Will be fun if that's sort of Senn 650/6xx sound signature - gorgeous and rich midrange yet overall somewhat dull and closed-in sound.

 

[Hear Here]

An otherwise "exciting" speaker can be made "boring" if the wrong amplifier is feeding it.

I home demo'd a dozen amps with my exciting speakers and found 2 or 3 rendered the music more like musak! Other amps added to the excitement factor.

 

[Jim Taylor]

An otherwise "exciting" speaker can be made "boring" if the wrong amplifier is feeding it.

I home demo'd a dozen amps with my exciting speakers and found 2 or 3 rendered the music more like musak! Other amps added to the excitement factor.

1) You say that you have "exciting" speakers. What are these speakers, and how did you know initially that they were "exciting"? What was your initial amplifier?
2) You auditioned several amplifiers in your home. From what I can understand of your post, you did this after you had found out that you had "exciting" speakers. You found some amplifiers that were "boring". This means that you found amplifiers that SUBTRACTED something from the recorded signal compared to what you had previously heard from your "exciting" speakers, correct?
3) What were these "boring" amplifiers? Were they tube or solid-state? What, exactly, did they subtract?

Thank you for the clarifications.

 

[wwenze]

What makes a youtuber boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?

 

[Jaxjax]

5 minutes on my phone/Wiim & those 310's would be exciting as all get out.....

 

[Duke]

Not saying this has any applicability to the KH310:

There is an approach to getting smooth frequency response from a driver which calls for an exceptionally well-damped diaphragm, either by material choice or geometry or both. My opinion, based largely on being disappointed in drivers which measured amazingly well (but not verified by controlled blind testing), is that drivers with exceptionally well-damped diaphragms tend to have a sonic characteristic which could be described as "less exiting" or "less lively/less dynamic" or "less articulate".

 

[JIW]

Makes me glad again that I avoided buying KH120 II w/o listening - all in all Neumann seems to be the speakers for those who like "speakerish" sound. However, would be nice to hear them and 310 as well. Will be fun if that's sort of Senn 650/6xx sound signature - gorgeous and rich midrange yet overall somewhat dull and closed-in sound.

Sound signature is more like HD600 than HD650. Not dull at all but tight sound stage. However, no forward upper mids or elevated mid/upper bass. All well balanced.

 

[Mr. Widget]

What makes a speaker boring or exciting ? and can it be measured?

I think it can be measured, but I believe it is fundamentally a subjective trait. What I mean by that statement is that I can create a series of measurements that would be useful for me to determine a boring vs. an exciting and dynamic speaker, but I do not think the measurements would define a universal perception of boring or its opposite.

Imagine taking that KH 310 and using a graphic EQ, put a 3 db bump at 80 hz and another at 2.4 khz. It would sound a bit more exciting. It would sound better on some material. So concentrate on that ignoring something that is worse. It might well seem like it adds a little energy, excitement and that little something extra. Overall however it likely pushes just as much source material over the top in those same ways.

I think you are on the right track, but I think there is more to it than simply the spectral balance. Along the lines of what @Duke was saying, I think minor resonances and distortion can play a role here as well. Obviously gross spectral nonlinearities, large amounts of distortion or perceptible resonances will result in a speaker that may appeal to some, but will become fatiguing to most listeners.