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What kind of DAC product would excite you again?

FINFET

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At least people in this forum believe DAC is a problem that has already been solved. If you see it as a tool for converting audio signals from digital to analog world, then I don't think there will be a DAC that can excite anyone again. Can you imagine being excited about a new screwdriver or a hoe invented and produced this year? Even for DACs with rich features like the ADI-2 DAC, most of the functions are already perfectly solved by software for quite long. People are still constantly reviewing new products of course, but I always feel that the purpose of new products is just being "new product" so people are willing to buy them, or as a replacement for old or broken ones, not because they have provided any new solutions to any problems. So do you think whether there will be a DAC product that can excite you again in the future? If there is, what kind of DAC do you think it should be?"

For me, I think it would be interesting to be able to load VSTs into the DSP for audio processing, similar to Apollo's audio interface. This way I can simulate various distortions, or use plugins to achieve functions similar to spatial audio. But maybe it doesn't solve any problem either, because loading VSTs in DAW software can also achieve this and sometimes much better and more convenient. Also multi-channel DACs are very useful, and perhaps ADAT interface expansion can be considered on the DAC, such as developing expansion modules with multiple digital interfaces or multiple analog interfaces. Each type of module can be purchased as needed.
 

amirm

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Can you imagine being excited about a new screwdriver or a hoe invented and produced this year?
I would! Especially the hoe given all the weeding I have to do! :D
 

Rja4000

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it would be interesting to be able to load VSTs into the DSP for audio processing, similar to Apollo's audio interface. This way I can simulate various distortions, or use plugins to achieve functions similar to spatial audio. But maybe it doesn't solve any problem either, because loading VSTs in DAW software can also achieve this
That would definitely be it for me as well.

A lot of "Audiophile" talks are about imagined differences. But some differences are real.
Typically, they are about added "faults", or non-linear behaviors. And you may like that. From time to time. Just as you could like more bass or trebble. As long as it's under your control, why not ?

In ideal world, a proven-transparent DAC could translate any of this with some convolution engine.
A bit like the Kemper way of working (but more accurate).

So a DAC is just a part of a device.
On top of the source (streamer+ Bluetooth receiver) and amp+speakers, we need room correction, EQ, loudness compensation, and, if possible, VST and/or convolution.
And display/analysis.
That would be a real comprehensive system.

Of course, all of this is possible from a DAW. But you'd want that for all sources: Streaming, TV, Bluetooth, CD, whatever.
 
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notsodeadlizard

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"At least people in this forum believe DAC is a problem that has already been solved"

Since the first massively successful DACs (it was Philips, it seems) these units (DAC is an unit only) have never been not only a "problem", they have not even been an issue.
This has nothing to do with "Chinese small boxes" (which for some reason are associated with the DACs), this is about big and serious audio manufacturers with huge R&D budgets - Asahi Kasei, Analog Devices, ESS, TI, Cirrus Logic, ROHM Semi (https://www.rohm.com/products/audio...s/audio-dacs/bd34352ekv-product#productDetail), etc.

And, traditionally, DAC is a unit of some device.
Because this unit is critical, all the companies listed above have spent a lot of resources on the development of what has become a completely ordinary thing today.
And it seems that technological saturation has already been achieved here.
Each small improvement at the DAC IC level will cost more and more.
There is nothing new in this, everything is as always and as it should be.
 

BeerBear

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For me, I think it would be interesting to be able to load VSTs into the DSP for audio processing, similar to Apollo's audio interface. This way I can simulate various distortions, or use plugins to achieve functions similar to spatial audio. But maybe it doesn't solve any problem either, because loading VSTs in DAW software can also achieve this and sometimes much better and more convenient.
Yes, if you're just adding effects for recording a guitar or something, it can easily be done in a DAW with current software.
What can't be done with current software is a permanent DSP/EQ on your interface outputs, which applies to all sounds from all sources, including low latency ASIO. I wrote about it before. Whoever implements that at a reasonable price gets my money.
And the capability to load VSTs through the driver sounds nice, but now I think having DSP on the device itself is better. It's more foolproof, more portable and if the manufacturer provides and open API, it could also run 3rd party effects.
 

notsodeadlizard

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Yes, if you're just adding effects for recording a guitar or something, it can easily be done in a DAW with current software.
What can't be done with current software is a permanent DSP/EQ on your interface outputs, which applies to all sounds from all sources, including low latency ASIO. I wrote about it before. Whoever implements that at a reasonable price gets my money.
And the capability to load VSTs through the driver sounds nice, but now I think having DSP on the device itself is better. It's more foolproof, more portable and if the manufacturer provides and open API, it could also run 3rd party effects.
Excuse me, but what does DAС have to do with all this?
 
OP
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FINFET

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"At least people in this forum believe DAC is a problem that has already been solved"

Since the first massively successful DACs (it was Philips, it seems) these units (DAC is an unit only) have never been not only a "problem", they have not even been an issue.
This has nothing to do with "Chinese small boxes" (which for some reason are associated with the DACs), this is about big and serious audio manufacturers with huge R&D budgets - Asahi Kasei, Analog Devices, ESS, TI, Cirrus Logic, ROHM Semi (https://www.rohm.com/products/audio...s/audio-dacs/bd34352ekv-product#productDetail), etc.

And, traditionally, DAC is a unit of some device.
Because this unit is critical, all the companies listed above have spent a lot of resources on the development of what has become a completely ordinary thing today.
And it seems that technological saturation has already been achieved here.
Each small improvement at the DAC IC level will cost more and more.
There is nothing new in this, everything is as always and as it should be.
I think I understand your point. That's why I mentioned the DAC product, rather than the audio DAC concept. I find it difficult to imagine any significant fundamental breakthroughs for a 20-20k bandwidth DAC designed solely for human auditory purposes. However, a DAC product with combined functions in the music playback chain on the other hand, might have the potential to cater individuals with specific requirements and could potentially spark interest among them.
 

BeerBear

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Excuse me, but what does DAС have to do with all this?
It depends on what we mean by DAC. When most people here on ASR say 'DAC' they mean 'soundcard' or 'audio interface' or some other kind of integrated hardware product, not just the DAC itself.
So OPs post and my reply are about that and the additional functionality included with the hardware.
 

notsodeadlizard

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It depends on what we mean by DAC. When most people here on ASR say 'DAC' they mean 'soundcard' or 'audio interface' or some other kind of integrated hardware product, not just the DAC itself.
So OPs post and my reply are about that and the additional functionality included with the hardware.
Well, OK, so D/A Converter means something different here.
Thanks, I will know.
 

notsodeadlizard

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I think I understand your point. That's why I mentioned the DAC product, rather than the audio DAC concept. I find it difficult to imagine any significant fundamental breakthroughs for a 20-20k bandwidth DAC designed solely for human auditory purposes. However, a DAC product with combined functions in the music playback chain on the other hand, might have the potential to cater individuals with specific requirements and could potentially spark interest among them.
No, DAС ICes from these manufacturers are not a "DAC concept", they are the true DACs.
If you mean a "standalone DAC box" as a "DAC product", then it's just a very niche product.
It's good that such a product exists, because many people have far from new but favorite audio systems, and a standalone DAC allows to add an additional digital source to them.
But in new systems there will be no such a standalone device at all because it is meaningless from the point of view of quality, because the DAC integrated into the amplifier is better than the external DAC (no additional analog wires and sockets).
Just think of this amplifier as a "digital input amplifier".

There is no future for "standalone DAC in a box" at all, it is temporary (and niche) device somewhat similar to CD player.
 

Veselchak U

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Good afternoon, I would like a bi-amped DAC, preferably with an adjustable cutoff frequency. At least a DAC with a subwoofer output.
 

MaxwellsEq

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It depends on what we mean by DAC. When most people here on ASR say 'DAC' they mean 'soundcard' or 'audio interface' or some other kind of integrated hardware product, not just the DAC itself.
So OPs post and my reply are about that and the additional functionality included with the hardware.
I don't think I've seen that in general here. I think most people describe a DAC as something that takes bits via USB or S/PDIF and outputs and audio voltage at line level
 

IAtaman

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I think DAC can be digital crossover at the same time
 

IAtaman

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DAC + HPA + Preamp + DSP combo with WiFi that can be controlled / configured via software / app. Kind a like RME ADI-2 DAC FS that has WiFi and an app.
 

ThatGuyYouKnow

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To keep it simple and realistic, multiple USB inputs (at least 4) with per-input UAC switching. As it is, I feel like I'm sitting on a warehouse full of SMSL PO100 PROs.
 

IAtaman

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To keep it simple and realistic, multiple USB inputs (at least 4) with per-input UAC switching. As it is, I feel like I'm sitting on a warehouse full of SMSL PO100 PROs.
Isn't a USB Switch selector solve that problem?
 

MaxwellsEq

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I think DAC can be digital crossover at the same time
Strictly speaking it can't. That is a DAC + DSP.

DACs that allow variable attenuation of the sound volume from 0 downwards (i.e. most these days) are not pure DACs, they are a kludge that allows processing of the audio in the digital domain, and so are also DAC + DSPs (but very low functionality DSP). BUT, it's common to call variable volume DACs simply "DACs" because they are in the majority. However, people would do well to recall that they are at heart an old fashioned DAC, whose output level should be 0 and may default to max volume on a whim..
 
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