What is your

[Balle Clorin]

Using the method shown above…. Balance arm horizontally with no antiskate at first, and then apply antiskate
What is your antiskate force at setting value 2, not 2.5

The expected value would be 0.2 to 0.3 gram , the upper value corresponds to my Denon Test record manual ,they estimate 15% of VTF .

Theory here

https://www.jpthien.com/temp/antiskating.pdf

If you need a device

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009329133191.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.6.2e7eFZMuFZMu3Y&algo_pvid=546e2865-9644-4487-8789-88575849967f&algo_exp_id=546e2865-9644-4487-8789-88575849967f-5&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2218%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%2C%22fromPage%22%3A%22search%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21EUR%215.92%210.87%21%21%216.77%211.00%21%40211b876717607773476843764e5218%2112000048772091558%21sea%21NO%210%21ABX%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29910%3Bd%3Ab0baaae6%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895%3BpisId%3A5000000187455136&curPageLogUid=ub5I5Wdvspvu&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009329133191%7C_p_origin_prod%3A

 

[Balle Clorin]

Poor mans Wally Skater..

 

[GuidoK]

Yes that's it.
But the wallyskater contains a mathematical flaw not mentioned in the manual (or that the scale is adapted to that).
Because the wallyskater is basically a balance, and the movement of the arm from left to right is not a strickt line but an arch, the scale should be somewhat progressive. The more the arm moves, the more the arm raises with the same sideways movement (requiering more force).


So with that stiction problem I mentioned, a cool experiment would be (with a wallyskater) to mount a tiny vibrating motor from a mobile phone or something, but maybe with less vibration/a lighter excenter weigth) on the top of the wallyskater.
Those vibrations might put the armbearings in a state of motion, reducing stiction. I would be very interested to see if those vibrations result in the arm moving more to the side, proving that stiction is a factor.

Do you get the same measurement value with your wallyskater as you do with your vtf scale? (the values from moving from left to right can't be copied from the original wallyskater manual as your wallyskater is a lot taller, so it has to be re-calculated)

What I find strange, is that there aren't any knockoffs available from China on aliexpress.
I mean, you could build it for like €5, there's no patent (not that that matters in China), and the wallyskater costs €250 or so (a ridiculous amount, but that's hifi....). There are even sites that show how to build your own wallyskater.

 

[EJ3]

Using the method shown above…. Balance arm horizontally with no antiskate at first, and then apply antiskate
What is your antiskate force at setting value 2, not 2.5

My answer is a Technics SL-M3 linier tracking turntable

 

[Balle Clorin]

@GuidoK, The result I get with my " toy skater" is 0.2g side force for AS setting 2, the "scale-on-the side" method gave 0.24 g.

Side force in grams= side distance/height from hook*VTF
Yes the arm must follow an arc,,, going up as it goes to the side, but I can lower the lift to get the same height above ground an zero AS and 2 AS -- it does not change the readings noticeably

With no AS the weight line and arm line do not fully coincide, 5mm apart. line and weight collide

 

[Thomas_A]

I might get one of those electronic scales to check.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Might?

 

[EJ3]

I might get one of those electronic scales to check.

In addition to my SL-M3,
I also have a DUAL 1229. For that turntable, this is a great idea. Thank You @Balle Clorin.

 

[dennis h]

More experiments from Jcarr and others:

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=48148.0

 

[Chrispy]

Good grief.

 

[theREALdotnet]

My grand kids want this for Christmas, should I get them a turntable, too?

 

[Snarfie]

Good grief.

Do I sense despair?

 

[EJ3]

My grand kids want this for Christmas, should I get them a turntable, too?

Let them build that, then show them a good turntable & then ask if they could build you a better one than the one you showed them.
With today's kids, computers & 3D printing, who knows what they might come up with.

 

[Snarfie]

Let them build that, then show them a good turntable & then ask if they could build you a better one than the one you showed them.
With today's kids, computers & 3D printing, who knows what they might come up with.

Absolutely. In a few years they’ll probably go beyond any audio gear or room acoustics entirely, developing neural audio transmitters that deliver wireless AI modified recordings straight to the brain, creating a true 360° live performance that even deaf people could enjoy

 

[Jokke]

It totally depends on the turntable.

 

[Balle Clorin]

My grand kids want this for Christmas, should I get them a turntable, too?

I got that for xmas in 1964, and now I am here...

 

[Balle Clorin]

Antiskating, Part II

korfaudio.com

 

[EJ3]

I got that for xmas in 1964, and now I am here...

In 1963 my mother bought me a couple of Lego sets while we were in Salzburg, Austria, visiting my grandmother (I was 5 & turned 6 while there [we also traveled around in Germany, Italy, France and possibly some other European countries while there, so I do not know which country the Lego's where bought in]. We sailed back on the SS United States and I brought the Lego's back home to James Island, SC. My friends where amazed with these Lego's that none of us had ever seen until I got them and brought them to our little rural area in 1963.
With my father owning the family business of plumbing, heating & air contitioning, and was also a mechanical contractor.
At that time, I already had Tinker Toys and Erector sets and he liked the additional Lego set's also.
I will say that these sets inspired me a lot in my youth (as well as my 0 guage train set that was rather expansive after a few years of getting add ons from older cousins as well as for my birthdays & Christmas). As well as insiring me throughout my life (along with magazines like Popular Mechanics that I began reading as soon as I was able to read [and doing some of their projects]).
Audio stuff started becoming more serious to me in the early 70's and all the former stuff just helped that interest expand.
Yes: and now "I am here...". Dang, what a convoluted & interesting way to get here, though.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The math behind the Skater check is like this

Fits quite well with what I measure with the fingerlift pushing against scale on the side

 

[Chrispy]

Do I sense despair?

LOL, just shaking my head over what people with vinyl will occupy their time with.