What is your stance on Chinese brand Hi-fi equipment

[sergeauckland]

yeah, generally I agree. It's a bit of a strawman really the whole longevity thing. It's like a last refuge for people who can no longer base their views on the sound quality (since really it's the SQ that matters most by far for the majority of us). "Damn, this cheap stuff sounds better than my boutique gear! I gotta find some way to validate spending all that cash!" But in a digital device like a dac, I don't think a decades-long life span is even a realistic desire. Technology changes faster than that. In 20 years, we probably aren't even going to be using dacs.

I keep reading that we won't want to use our X year old equipment any more as it's obsolete, and there's better out there. However, my old Nokia mobile phone worked for over 10 years and would probably still be working if I hadn't lost it. My current laptop is around 12 years old, and still working fine, no need to replace it. Most of my HiFi is over 30 years old, some of it well over 40 years old, even the newest stuff is just short of 12 years old.

Ditto with cars, cameras, watches and domestic appliances.

It makes no sense to me to buy anything that will just see out the warranty on the basis that buyers would want to update anyway, so why bother making things last. There lies much of the problems in the modern world, and I just won't play that game.

S.

 

[JeffS7444]

I am in general computer equipment hardware repair business.
These days it is not uncommon for a two year old laptop to break down, hell even few months old ones break down regularly (I know!).
Yet ten year old laptops, if has been treated well are still going! OK batteries don't, but the rest are mostly OK.
This is not luck.
These days manufacturers Know how to manufacture at min. cost, that lasts the warranty period. If they can save a fraction of a cent here and there, They Do!
It takes a dedicated company, valuing their reliability score to specify components and methods to increase the reliability life. This costs money! those fractions of cents, here and there soon add up to few dollars, and when you make 50000 units or more , it can hurt the bottom line.
There is no doubt some far east manufacturers devices do last, but not all devices that have been trimmed to minimize product cost.
Smaller, western manufacturers, can not compete with far eastern manufacturers on such deep cost cuttings.

Aren't a lot of PC and component makers based in places like the USA and Taiwan, and aren't they the ones who ultimately decide where compromises get made?

Lenovo is PRC-based, and my experience to date has been positive, and from my perspective, not a lot has changed since the days when IBM ran the show.

 

[digitalfrost]

I have a mix of components. I run Topping DACs to my satisfaction and I bought quite some IEMs from China as it seems they are market leader in that segment compared to traditional audio companies.

The rest of my stuff is mostly pro or prosumer gear, RME, Benchmark, Beyerdynamic, HIFIAkademie.

I think the competition the chinese brands bring to the market is very good for the consumer, just look at IEMs. They have improved greatly in the last couple of years with more and more of formely high-end performance being available at lower and lower price points.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I keep reading that we won't want to use our X year old equipment any more as it's obsolete, and there's better out there. However, my old Nokia mobile phone worked for over 10 years and would probably still be working if I hadn't lost it. My current laptop is around 12 years old, and still working fine, no need to replace it. Most of my HiFi is over 30 years old, some of it well over 40 years old, even the newest stuff is just short of 12 years old.

Ditto with cars, cameras, watches and domestic appliances.

It makes no sense to me to buy anything that will just see out the warranty on the basis that buyers would want to update anyway, so why bother making things last. There lies much of the problems in the modern world, and I just won't play that game.

S.

Fair enough. I certainly wouldn't be using a nokia flip phone today even if it did still work. Just because something still works that doesn't mean it's not obsolete. I've got an 8 year old laptop myself and it works fine, but if I wanted to actually run any recent games on it I'd be underwhelmed to say the least. I mean I'm not saying my Topping dacs won't last another 8 or 10 years. Maybe they will. I probably won't still be using them either way.

[just an aside wrt appliances...it's a pretty common complaint that planned obsolescence is a thing with appliances and nothing lasts like it used to. But have you ever seen an old washer or stove that's been used for 20 years? Disgusting. lol. When my parents moved out of their home a few years back they still had the first built-in dishwasher they had bought about 30 years ago. Still worked! Well...technically-speaking it worked lol. It sounded like a jet engine and it barely actually cleaned the dishes. I'm not sure they weren't dirtier coming out. If you'd asked me I'd have described it as obsolete about 15 years ago.]

 

[JeffS7444]

Regarding modern electronics in general, SMD is generally assembled by robots, but to date I think no one has devised a robot which can repair the things! Although SMD can be repaired by humans, I think it's enough of a niche that manufacturers aren't really considering the possibility that someone might want to perform component-level repairs, which is kind of a pity.

 

[amper42]

I would prefer to stay away from anything made in China. I don't want to support the China Communist Party or it's actions/threats against Hong Kong and/or Taiwan. China has no limits on it's aggression. Siding with Putin to destroy Ukraine is another example of how China doesn't deserve my support. There are so many other peaceful/free countries in the world I would much rather do business with. To see great companies like Apple bow to the China communist party by telling vendors no parts can ship indicating they are made in Taiwan is another example of how evil invades the economy. Apple and every other company should remove all operations from China now, just as companies did in Russia. My Hifi gear lives in my home. I want to be able to support its country of origin. Buy from companies and countries you can support. That's our only voting mechanism.

 

[DonR]

Some of my early purchases of Chinese hi-fi goods were of varied quality. Although my Little Dot MK III has overall excellent build quality on the PCB, the hand finishing and some of the design left a lot to be desired. Many of my early mass production devices died a quick death and tended to have some serious flaws. A lot of my test and repair equipment had to be repaired before first use: no proper case grounding, loose wires and screws and exposed mains connections. Recently (last 5 years say) the quality has improved and become more consistent although sometimes hand finishing is still suspect like flux residue on boards and misaligned connectors.

 

[irontortoise]

I have a combination of Schiit and Chinese manufactured gear. Do I wish there were more affordable North American/EU made options? Sure, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. Price to performance is unbeatable.

 

[JSmith]

ChiFi gear

Hi, welcome to ASR.

Please, try not to use this term, otherwise feel free to discuss the open topic;

Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi

I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[irontortoise]

Hi, welcome to ASR.

Please, try not to use this term, otherwise feel free to discuss the open topic;

Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi

I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

Sorry. Edited!

 

[oldsysop]

I have nothing against China, in fact I prefer it to the USA, but in audio I'm only interested in Japanese products from the 70's.

 

[AdamG]

Sorry. Edited!

Thank you Sir. Welcome Aboard The ASR train!

 

[egellings]

Is there anything in part or in whole that is not made in China?

 

[Vacceo]

I guess all my audio gear is Chinese, because there is a sticker saying 'made in China' on the Marantz AVR and the KEF speakers I use. If we include the PC, it changes to Taiwan (Asus components) and I am hesitant to include the PC case (that was made in Australia for sure), so...

 

[irontortoise]

Is there anything in part or in whole that is not made in China?

Vegetables in your local farmers' market. For electronics, I doubt it. Even most of the raw materials would end up being sourced from China currently.

 

[egellings]

What makes China so attractive for outsourcing is its cheap labor and lax to nonexistent environmental protection laws.
Izz cheep!

 

[Koeitje]

I don't see why even a $150 DAC shouldn't last 20+ years. What in a cheap product has a limited lifetime that isn't equally so in an expensive product?
No, if I buy something electronic, at any price, I expect it to work until I no longer want to use it.

S.

Nobody is saying they shouldn't last long. But the real issue in the industry is that we have mainstream brands selling products that are broken on release and never get fixed. All the Chinese products I have bought still work and have no serious issues, at least nothing on the level of the garbage that brands like Marantz and NAD put out for thousands of dollars.

 

[tomchris]

My impression is that established brands have been in decline for years. It started around the mid 90s with the myopic focus on VHS home movie systems. However, since the turn of the century when Apple iTunes, iPod became ubiquitous, marked by the decline of CD sales and a continued singleminded focus on DVD home entertainment systems, the decline really took off. With downsizing, engineering/manufacturing as a commodity, all brands have lost all hard earned know-how.

Nowadays when the established brands have refocused some efforts the make audio products, the performance is at best subpar, but ridiculously expensive.

I believe that measurable improvements in performance are now solely being made by Chinese audio products. It may have started out as copies of old tech, but now they are doing their own thing at affordable prices.

 

[MaxBuck]

My concern with the Chinese brands isn't so much with quality control as with their opaque customer service. I understand this problem also can be encountered with US, Canadian, British and Dutch brands, but it seems unavoidable among the Chinese labels.

 

[sq225917]

I have no stance on Chinese hifi because I think of each product individually and might only consider the wider brand rep if it was expensive enough to matter.