What is the point of buying expensive headphones if you can just use an equalizer to get the same frequency response on cheap ones?

[ihavenoidea]

And mitigate any distortion issues using an amplifier, maybe. Not sure if that's how it works

I'm sure this has been discussed extensively before, but I couldn't find any related topics from my searching

If there is such a thread, please point me in the right direction

Thanks

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

You can’t just mitigate away distortion issues with an amplifier.

If your headphones theoretically had no audible distortion, and wouldn’t distort no matter how much you pushed any frequency, and you had enough bands of parametric eq available, you’d have a point.

 

[abdo123]

headphones are effectively items of clothing, so it says a lot about your lifestyle to even ask such a question.

As for other aspects of performance, the comments on this reddit thread sums it up nicely.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/myczkw

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

As a very general point, it raises the question for speakers as much as headphones.

 

[mhardy6647]

Well, in the case of headphones, I can think of two parameters that might tip the 'value proposition' in favor of a more expensive unit -- perhaps even a much more expensive unit.

• Physical comfort and/or aesthetics. The former is pretty mission critical if one will wear them more than very occasionally; the latter -- let's be honest: hifi in general, and headphones in particular, is/are at least partly a fashion industry.
• Physical quality/robustness, which may have implications for longevity. I make 'capital purchases' with an intended (hoped for!) life expectancy of decades, absent the "fashion industry" observation above.

To either point, of course, YMMV.

EDIT: In full disclosure, I am speaking mostly hypothetically. I don't like wearing headphones nor do I like listening to music via headphones. I am
solipsistic enough without the explicit isolation of headphones!

 

[sandymc]

Personally, I have experimented extensively with headphone EQ, and different headphones still sound totally different to me post EQ. Of course, ymmv

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Well, in the case of headphones, I can think of two parameters that might tip the 'value proposition' in favor of a more expensive unit -- perhaps even a much more expensive unit.

• Physical comfort and/or aesthetics. The former is pretty mission critical if one will wear them more than very occasionally; the latter -- let's be honest: hifi in general, and headphones in particular, is/are at least partly a fashion industry.
• Physical quality/robustness, which may have implications for longevity. I make 'capital purchases' with an intended (hoped for!) life expectancy of decades, absent the "fashion industry" observation above.

To either point, of course, YMMV.

EDIT: In full disclosure, I am speaking mostly hypothetically. I don't like wearing headphones nor do I like listening to music via headphones. I am
solipsistic enough without the explicit isolation of headphones!

I’d say that, leaving aside discussion of it being too bright, and not Harman enough, the Beyerdynamic DT990 Edition headphones are about as comfortable a headphone as I’ve ever worn, and (whilst opinions may clearly) extremely fine looking.

And they cost < £140, which isn’t a fortune in headphone terms.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Really, there isn't much point. I mean you aren't likely going to be able to exactly match the headphones, but you can get pretty close, and our ears aren't as able to detect small difference as we like to imagine them to be. And once you've got them fairly closely matched, preference between them will vary based on individual recordings more than anything else. The law of diminishing returns comes into play pretty quick with headphones.

 

[Takanaka]

The thing many people seem to forget is that the drivers in the higher end headphones are usually technically more capable combined with extensive tuning and optimisation. You might be able to match FR with EQ but that doesn’t necessarily mean the driver and the surrounding build produce the FR in the same way, especially with the limitations that apply to very compact builds such as headphones.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

The thing many people seem to forget is that the drivers in the higher end headphones are usually technically more capable combined with extensive tuning and optimisation. You might be able to match FR with EQ but that doesn’t necessarily mean the driver and the surrounding build produce the FR in the same way, especially with the limitations that apply to very compact builds such as headphones.

What would be the audible characteristics of the driver and build "producing the frequency response" in a different way?

I think we're assuming here that we aren't talking about some $40 Walmart no name headphones turning into a set of HD800s or something. But a good pair of $200 cans is going to be able to get you awfully close to where you want to be...even without EQ you can find less expensive headphones that measure every bit as well as much more expensive cans. You can also find extremely expensive sets that have pretty awful measurements.

 

[JeffS7444]

And mitigate any distortion issues using an amplifier, maybe. Not sure if that's how it works

No handy way that I'm aware of to undo headphone distortion. Equalization can do amazing things for headphone performance, but there are limits to what you can correct in this manner: I've had multi-driver IEMs which had nulls due to phase cancellation, and that kind of thing can't be EQ'd away.

 

[AdamG]

Op, here is a good example of a inexpensive headphone that was reviewed by Amir and performed exceptionally with EQ applied.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/9-headphone-review-sony-mdr-zx110.19484/

Here is another: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../akg-k371-review-closed-back-headphone.19657/

 

[Tks]

Distortion, comfort, aesthetics, and actually more importantly - you don't actually hear what measurements spit out per-se. And even if you did, measurements can't be taken as gospel due to setups in rigging. It would be much easier if one could take some sort of universal form factor of driver to ear-cup housing dimensions and test that way, but that simply isn't the case.

Your ear size, ear shape, distance from drivers and such, all make a headphone sound a bit different from one person to the next. Pair that up with how you seat the headphone on your head, and you basically now have headphones that - while EQ'd the same - don't actually sound 100% the same due to aforementioned reasons. And also because distortion climbs as you EQ most headphones (their bass region more specifically). One other thing is, beyond 10kHz, all measurements I've seen by virtually every evaluator says to ignore basically everything above that due to technical limits of the measurements most perform.

Another reason is some people are aware of their placebo. But being aware of one doesn't actually immunize you against the effects. I (and I'd like to imagine many others who wouldn't like to acknowledge this) have this sort of issue. I'll take a 192kHz 24-bit album and have it converted to lossy (for portable use). Even though I've failed blind testing between them, every time I come back to the Hi-Res native file, I feel as if it sounds better. Though to be clear I don't have those Hi-Res files because I think I hear the difference, I have them due to that being the supposed native offering while others are resamples or conversions (I'm a fan of having the original offering from the publisher).

 

[LightninBoy]

IMO, The 3 fundamental things to look for in headphones are:

1. Comfort
2. Basically follows the Harman curve
3. Low distortion giving you headroom to EQ to taste

You can get all 3 for less than $400. Sometimes much less.

 

[abdo123]

IMO, The 3 fundamental things to look for in headphones are:

1. Comfort
2. Basically follows the Harman curve
3. Low distortion giving you headroom to EQ to taste

You can get all 3 for less than $400. Sometimes much less.

where? lmao.

 

[Thomas_A]

On the other hand, why use EQ when there are good measuring headphones out there.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

where? lmao.

Amazon, lol

 

[aandres_gm]

Besides the physical aspects, which have already been mentioned (build quality, materials, fit, etc), I do believe there's a big part of the sound presentation on headphones and speakers that cannot be measured. For example, I own to open back headphones: Audio Technica ATH-AD900 and Grado SR60e. Both are equalized. The presentation of the music is completely different: the AD900 is a lot more spacious, with a way bigger soundstage, compared to the Grado.

This may have something to do with the size and positioning of the drivers relative to my head, the shape of my ears, etc. but the differences are there, and they're very noticeable. It's probably akin to the effects of a room's shape, size and furnishing in a speaker system.

Measurements are great, as the establish a basis for comparison and, in the case of amps/DACs, they may be able to tell 99% of the story (maybe, maybe not? Maybe someday we'll discover new testing methods, gotta keep an open mind), but in the case of speakers and headphones, there are many other factors.

 

[abdo123]

Amazon, lol

Even the Aeon RT which is the most highly acclaimed headphone so far on this website does not follow the target curve in the treble and has weird right and left channel matching. Issues that Amir scrubbed under the rug subjectively.

to say that he can get all of the things he mentioned without EQ under 400$ is very very far fetched.

 

[Koeitje]

As a very general point, it raises the question for speakers as much as headphones.

Its not the same for speakers, because the interaction with the room is such a massive factor as well as distortion limits. You think its easy to make a headphone clip using an equalizer? Try having a 5" woofer play 20hz at reference level...