What is the LP frequency of your subwoofer(s)?

[dualazmak]

LP 12 dB/Oct at 50 Hz for subwoofers, HP 12 dB/Oct at 45 Hz for woofers, so voted for 50 60 Hz.

I believe not only the XO frequency, but also the selection of the slopes of LP and HP for subwoofers (SWs) and woofers (WOs) should be properly selected depending on each of our system.

You would please refer to my post here for my latest (as of May 30 2022) system setup including the details of XO configurations.

To objectively know/measure the transient characteristics of our SW and WO around the XO frequency should be worthwhile for optimal decision of XO Fq and filer slopes.

Furthermore, the time alignment (in less than 1 msec precision) between SWs and WOs would be critical for excellent total "transient" behavior of the system in the low Fq sound covered by SW, SW+WO, WO.

I could objectively measure such aspects at least in my system as shared here and here in my project thread.

 

[sarumbear]

LP 12 dB/Oct at 50 Hz for subwoofers, HP 12 dB/Oct at 45 Hz for woofers, so voted for 50 Hz.

May I ask the low frequency specs of your main speakers? F3/fc, enclosure type?

 

[dualazmak]

May I ask the low frequency specs of your main speakers? F3/fc, enclosure type?

Certainly, sir! You can find all the info here on my thread. NS-1000 cabinet is fully sealed type.

I edited my above post #21 as ",so voted for 50 60 Hz". I really would like to have selection of "50 Hz"!

Please refer here for the difference between NS-1000 and NS-1000M.

I eliminated all the passive LCR network and the attenuators. Now all the SP drivers are driven directly by dedicated amplifiers as shown here.

 

[sarumbear]

Thank you for the link. As the woofer in NS-1000 is working into a closed box, the inherent characteristics of the driver will be a 12nd order HPF at around the driver resonance frequency which seems to be 40Hz. You are feeding the driver via an active 2nd order HPF which is cascaded to the driver's inherent HP filter and creates a 4th order HP filter. However, your LP filter for the subwoofer is only 2nd order. Shouldn't this create asymmetry at the crossover?

Also, I notice that you are using a LR filter to drive the woofer, which has -6dB at filter frequency, but normally woofers are loaded such that their response is nearer to Butterworth with response down -3dB at filter frequency. That may add more complications to the crossover and hence to the summation.

 

[dualazmak]

Thank you for the link. As the woofer in NS-1000 is working into a closed box, the inherent characteristics of the driver will be a 12nd order HPF at around the driver resonance frequency which seems to be 40Hz. You are feeding the driver via an active 2nd order HPF which is cascaded to the driver's inherent HP filter and creates a 4th order HP filter. However, your LP filter for the subwoofer is only 2nd order. Shouldn't this create asymmetry at the crossover?

Also, I notice that you are using a LR filter to drive the woofer, which has -6dB at filter frequency, but normally woofers are loaded such that their response is nearer to Butterworth with response down -3dB at filter frequency. That may add more complications to the crossover and hence to the summation.

I assume, theoretically you are correct.

I intensively measured, however, the SW's and WO's (as well as SQ's, TW's and ST's) response to 8-wave and 3-wave rectangular sine wave tone pulses under my current setup.

You would please carefully read these posts on my thread;

- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-1_ Precision pulse wave matching method: #493
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-2_ Energy peak matching method: #494
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-3_ Precision single sine wave matching method in 0.1 msec accuracy: #504, #507
- Measurement of transient characteristics of Yamaha 30 cm woofer JA-3058 in sealed cabinet and Yamaha active sub-woofer YST-SW1000: #495, #497, #503, #507

To actually measure and see the room air sound wave shape by stimulation with simple tone burst sine wave of specific frequency should be the ultimate tuning procedure, I believe.

Also I have really flexible relative gain/volume control between the SP drivers using the "integrated amplifiers" and active SWs (it has own volume/gain controller) in analog domain, as you may find a typical example case here.

After the implementation of total configuration through such intensive objective measurements, we should (if needed) further fine tune the system and room acoustics using excellent reference music tracks of our preference. In this perspective, you would please refer to my recent post here and thereafter.

BTW, I assume you may fully agree with me that your full understandings and confirmation can be achieved if I could invite you to my home for our audio listening session!

 

[sarumbear]

I assume, theoretically you are correct.

I intensively measured, however, the SW's and WO's (as well as SQ's, TW's and ST's) response to 8-wave and 3-wave rectangular sine wave tone pulses under my current setup.

You would please carefully read these posts on my thread;

- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-1_ Precision pulse wave matching method: #493
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-2_ Energy peak matching method: #494
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-3_ Precision single sine wave matching method in 0.1 msec accuracy: #504, #507
- Measurement of transient characteristics of Yamaha 30 cm woofer JA-3058 in sealed cabinet and Yamaha active sub-woofer YST-SW1000: #495, #497, #503, #507

To actually measure and see the room air sound wave shape by stimulation with simple tone burst sine wave of specific frequency should be the ultimate tuning procedure, I believe.

Also I have really flexible relative gain/volume control between the SP drivers using the "integrated amplifiers" and active SWs (it has own volume/gain controller) in analog domain, as you may find a typical example case here.

After the implementation of total configuration through such intensive objective measurements, we should (if needed) further fine tune the system and room acoustics using excellent reference music tracks of our preference. In this perspective, you would please refer to my recent post here and thereafter.

As it is most often the case when it comes to electroacoustics there are multiple ways to reach an aim. Thank you for the explanations.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Do you have a non-secret reason for asking or just curious?

 

[sarumbear]

Do you have a non-secret reason for asking or just curious?

To whom you are asking the question?

 

[sigbergaudio]

To whom you are asking the question?

It was directed at you.

 

[sarumbear]

It was directed at you.

Which of my questions you are referring at?

It would help if you don’t treat a forum thread as a real-time chat and be clearer.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Which of my questions you are referring at?

It would help if you don’t treat a forum thread as a real-time chat and be clearer.

My apologies. The main one: "What is the LP frequency of your subwoofer(s)?"

 

[sarumbear]

My apologies. The main one: "What is the LP frequency of your subwoofer(s)?"

That’s not my question. I’m not the OP.

 

[sigbergaudio]

That’s not my question. I’m not the OP.

Weird, says so here.

 

[Zef]

34Hz,; 24db/octave
Voter 40Hz

 

[sarumbear]

Weird, says so here.

View attachment 232173

I apologise. I was confused between threads with similar subjects and answered wrongly. I am sorry.

The purpose of my poll is curiosity. I want to find out how much has THX guides been affecting the users.

 

[sarumbear]

34Hz,; 24db/octave
Voter 40Hz

Wow! I love to hear more of the setup? How is the bass managed, what are the main speakers, etc.?

 

[Plcamp]

50 to 60 hz works with Open Baffle, using a dsp on an older ported sub.

 

[kthulhutu]

80hz with Genelec's 48db/oct crossover.
There is some image shifting near the crossover frequency but it's barely noticeable in music and 80hz xover gives the 8341 a nice amount of headroom.

 

[sarumbear]

80hz with Genelec's 48db/oct crossover.
There is some image shifting near the crossover frequency but it's barely noticeable in music and 80hz xover gives the 8341 a nice amount of headroom.

What instrument(s) are shifting?

 

[kthulhutu]

What instrument(s) are shifting?

I notice the shifting in test tones not music. At 60hz xover I cannot localize the sub, at 80hz I can.