What is the LP frequency of your subwoofer(s)?

[Chromatischism]

60 Hz, because 70 Hz isn't an option. Although, after the sub boost it gets closer to 65-68 Hz.

Would love to get them up to 80 Hz but things don't "gel" as well for me.

 

[sarumbear]

I notice the shifting in test tones not music. At 60hz xover I cannot localize the sub, at 80hz I can.

Thank God that we don’t listen to test tones

 

[fredoamigo]

Some time ago, I came across an interesting article on the subject and the why and how seems interesting.

https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/personal-psychoacoustics

"The subwoofer crossover has to be lower than 50Hz to be truly seamless​

This topic is related to the above. Let’s say you’re adding a sub to a critical-listening music system. Full-range music, intended to be realistic and lifelike, not a home theater, where the LF effects have no real-life analogue. (An exploding Death Star does not exist in real life, so there is no way to evaluate the realism of the speaker’s reproduction. You can evaluate its clarity or its articulation or its freedom from obvious distortion, but you cannot evaluate its realism if it doesn’t exist.) However, music exists, it’s real, especially acoustic music, like jazz or classical or vocals.


My 40+ years’ experience tells me this: If you’re adding a sub to a high-caliber music system, you better cross it over below 50Hz (with a sharp LPF slope, preferably 24dB/oct) or it’ll sound like a 3-piece system. I have had countless subjective experiences that confirm this to my total satisfaction. The latest example is my current system—When I moved my Legacy Signatures into a different room, their extreme low bass suffered. Recordings that I knew very well, with content below 30-35Hz, were much weaker in the new room. I added an SVS-3000 SB sealed sub. I experimented with the LPF setting and not until I settled on 40Hz was the sub truly inaudible as a separate entity. At 60Hz, it was awful. At 50, it was ok. At 40, it was perfectly integrated. Let me repeat: awful at 60, not 80 (THX standard)."

 

[Chromatischism]

You can achieve a seamless "one piece" system with subwoofers up to about 80 Hz if you know how to place them properly, delay, and EQ to get a flat response. 100 Hz can work but needs a steeper filter. 60-80 really is the sweet spot, which also informs what kind of speakers you should be pairing the subs with.

I do not share that reviewer's experience, and I have a lot of experience doing this in my rooms over the last 7 or so years. It doesn't sound like he was using a delay or EQ. And what about his placement? If he is exciting room modes, then he is probably blissfully avoiding them by crossing lower.

 

[sarumbear]

My 40+ years’ experience tells me this: If you’re adding a sub to a high-caliber music system, you better cross it over below 50Hz (with a sharp LPF slope, preferably 24dB/oct) or it’ll sound like a 3-piece system.

Assuming you have main speakers that can reproduce below 50Hz. Almost all 2-way bookshelf or on-stand speakers fail to do that.

 

[ryanosaur]

I want to find out how much has THX guides been affecting the users.

For myself, I listened critically over the course of a few weeks, comparing XO frequency and the resulting effect on SQ. I have Mains capable down to 25Hz, but also enjoy Organ and Electronic Music which requires deeper extension... thus the Subs.

Originally, I wanted to cross as low as possible to take advantage of the SQ of my Mains. A little experimentation, and I found offloading the Bass at 80 resulted in more clarity in the Mids and Highs. To me, this was most notable with Cymbals having a cleaner attack, or more detailed sizzle from riding on the high hat. I could hear it in Female Vocals, too, Soprano Sax, etc.
It was subtle, and I took care to only do my listening in short sessions as to avoid fatigue (not listening fatigue, but like tasting wine, you start to lose your palette after several different tastes ). For me, I didn't really notice any benefit from crossing higher still, so I stuck with 80 for my Mains.

 

[Chromatischism]

Assuming you have main speakers that can reproduce below 50Hz. Almost all 2-way bookshelf or on-stand speakers fail to do that.

In-room results are quite different than anechoic.

Small two-way bookshelf speakers with different XO settings (Large or off, 40, 60, 80).

 

[fredoamigo]

Assuming you have main speakers that can reproduce below 50Hz. Almost all 2-way bookshelf or on-stand speakers fail to do that.

yes of course this would apply to full range speakers only.

 

[stevenswall]

You can achieve a seamless "one piece" system with subwoofers up to about 80 Hz if you know how to place them properly, delay, and EQ to get a flat response. 100 Hz can work but needs a steeper filter. 60-80 really is the sweet spot, which also informs what kind of speakers you should be pairing the subs with.

I do not share that reviewer's experience, and I have a lot of experience doing this in my rooms over the last 7 or so years. It doesn't sound like he was using a delay or EQ. And what about his placement? If he is exciting room modes, then he is probably blissfully avoiding them by crossing lower.

I use Genelec 8260 monitors with a 7271 subwoofer right behind me. I've also used them with a DEBRA/SWARM 4 subwoofer array... Crossing over around 60hz or so seems to work better than 80hz. I used REW and a MiniDSP to calibrate the latter woofer system. Volume levels matched and got rid of the peaks. No time calibration though like with GLM.

 

[sarumbear]

In-room results are quite different than anechoic.

Small two-way bookshelf speakers with different XO settings (Large or off, 40, 60, 80).

View attachment 232180

Without legends I have no idea you are showing us.

 

[SDC]

two 100, four 30. But If I have to choose one for all than 100, so voted 100.

 

[Chromatischism]

Without legends I have no idea you are showing us.

? The info is both at the bottom of the image and in my post.

 

[Zef]

Wow! I love to hear more of the setup? How is the bass managed, what are the main speakers, etc.?

Main are 3 ways DIY with à paire of 15inch bass drivers so sub is just for extrem bass frequencies

 

[sarumbear]

? The info is both at the bottom of the image and in my post.

If I could see it I wouldn't have asked. The image resolution is too small for me to see.

 

[dualazmak]

This is a follow-up of my post #25 above in this thread regarding measurement and tuning of time alignment and transient behavior of SP drivers.

I, of course, intensively and precisely measured the Fq response profiles at various "stages" of the multi-channel multi-amplifier system setup, in digital domain, in analog domain, and also in actual room air sound at listening position.

If you would interested in such systematic measurement of Fq responses, please refer to my posts on my project thread;
- Frequency response measurements by "cumulative white noise averaging": #392
- Where in my multichannel multi-driver (multi-way) multi-amplifier stereo system should I measure/check frequency (Fq) Responses? #393
- Frequency (Fq) responses in the completed system measured by using “cumulative white noise averaging method” under the present standard crossover configurations and relative gains:
Part-1_Fq Responses in EKIO’s digital output level: #394
Part-2_Fq Responses in DAC8PRO’s analog output level: #396
Part-3_Fq Responses in amplifiers’ SP output level before protection capacitors: #401
Part-4_Fq Responses in amplifiers’ SP output level after protection capacitors: #402
Part-5_Fq Responses in actual SP room sound at listening position using one measurement microphone: #403
Part-6_Summary, discussions, and a little step forward: #404, #405-#409

 

[Head_Unit]

RE "What is the LP frequency of your subwoofer(s)"
Ah, back when I had a turntable, is was 33 RPM...