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What is the impact on amplifier power / SPL from filtering out low frequencies - crossover, subwoofer, LPF

But then again the opposite might happen.
I didn't read that linked thread. But I wonder if this is a real world issue? It would be widespread with the use of AVR's where the internal DSP is high passing the internal amplifier in almost all of home theater setups. I also wonder about professional installations where high passing the top end and the use of subwoofers is mandatory for reaching the desired SPL.
 
I didn't read that linked thread. But I wonder if this is a real world issue? It would be widespread with the use of AVR's where the internal DSP is high passing the internal amplifier in almost all of home theater setups. I also wonder about professional installations where high passing the top end and the use of subwoofers is mandatory for reaching the desired SPL.
I wish you would read it. Both of the Steely Dan tracks mentioned there, "Two Against Nature" and "The Last Mall" are such that HP filtering (80Hz, 24dB) causes a few dB greater peak level than the original. I wanted to check before replying and I get similar results to what @RayDunzl did. Seems real world issue to me. I can't speak to every case of applying DSP like the ones you mention but it seems to me headroom should be created before you apply DSP.
 
I wish you would read it. Both of the Steely Dan tracks mentioned there, "Two Against Nature" and "The Last Mall" are such that HP filtering (80Hz, 24dB) causes a few dB greater peak level than the original. I wanted to check before replying and I get similar results to what @RayDunzl did. Seems real world issue to me. I can't speak to every case of applying DSP like the ones you mention but it seems to me headroom should be created before you apply DSP.
Yes even some of the tracks I tried sometimes have higher peaks after filtering. I don't see any controversy in that.
 
I wish you would read it. Both of the Steely Dan tracks mentioned there, "Two Against Nature" and "The Last Mall" are such that HP filtering (80Hz, 24dB) causes a few dB greater peak level than the original. I wanted to check before replying and I get similar results to what @RayDunzl did. Seems real world issue to me. I can't speak to every case of applying DSP like the ones you mention but it seems to me headroom should be created before you apply DSP.
I read it, and the key takeaway for me was its connection to du/dt, similar to what we observe in frequency converters. Back EMF from inductive loads becomes more significant at higher frequencies, making voltage peaks more likely to occur when the amplifier is high-passed.
If that understanding is accurate, I agree that it's a real-world phenomenon. However, because high-passed amplifiers require less current, they still need to supply less power than non-high-passed amplifiers in the same application. Just make sure that the high-passed amplifier is not voltage-limited.
 
The area that gets the most energy in songs is not the 30-80Hz,yes,it's also demanding but peak finder with most genres puts it at the 100-250Hz range,where the impact lies,where the boot stinks,where the big brass play,etc.

Division definitely helps but there must be a driver (+cabinet volume) above the subs that can handle this also,it's not only about amp power.
 
The area that gets the most energy in songs is not the 30-80Hz,yes,it's also demanding but peak finder with most genres puts it at the 100-250Hz range,where the impact lies,where the boot stinks,where the big brass play,etc.
We have two graphs that say otherwise:
1727798446863.png Spectrum_of_music_for_reviewing-1.png

Would you mind linking a source?
 
I read it, and the key takeaway for me was its connection to du/dt, similar to what we observe in frequency converters. Back EMF from inductive loads becomes more significant at higher frequencies, making voltage peaks more likely to occur when the amplifier is high-passed.
If that understanding is accurate, I agree that it's a real-world phenomenon. However, because high-passed amplifiers require less current, they still need to supply less power than non-high-passed amplifiers in the same application. Just make sure that the high-passed amplifier is not voltage-limited.
I agree with this I think, but usually high voltage rails go hand in hand with overall power capability. I think it would be a little odd to be looking for an amp with high voltage rail that can't deliver a lot of power.
 
We have two graphs that say otherwise:
View attachment 396110 View attachment 396111

Would you mind linking a source?
Here's a chart from example,peak vs average:

1727895636290.png
Lows may look higher but the added 30-80Hz energy is lower or comparable than the added 80-250Hz.

It's from this thread which is about 100 songs from various threads analyzed.


1727895822730.png

Needless to say the my collection (classical) is even flatter than this and if talking about peaks way more energy at the midbass area.
 
I agree with this I think, but usually high voltage rails go hand in hand with overall power capability. I think it would be a little odd to be looking for an amp with high voltage rail that can't deliver a lot of power.
This has long been the traditional approach to amplifier design: an unregulated power supply with relatively high voltage but limited current capacity, along with large capacitor reserves. It offers strong peak power but lacks in sustained power delivery.
This approach has proven to be highly effective for the requirements we have for an amplifier.
 
Most conventional amps have a power supply that will decrease in voltage if driven with a lot of loud bass. If you highpass that amp, you virualy increase the supply voltage. Which gives the remaining frequency range more headroom before clipping. There may be more advantages, like less heat produced and semi conductors working more linear, but this is the main reason for better sound from the amp.
The midwoofer will do less excursion, resulting in a better midrange reproduction, passive components see less current. All that leading to less distortion not only at elevated levels.
So not only does your sub give extended bass response, but it also reduces non linearities of the main speaker. Makinge them sound like some more expensive version of themselves.
The average main will sound audible better, high passed with a subwoofer. Using no high pass with a sub is simply making the investment less audible value.

Now, if you only add a sub and still feed the main speaker full range, if you get the settings right, have a very good amp and limit the SPL, this may come close. As soon as you crank it up or your main amp is more of a mediocre design, you will hear quite drastically what I described. Increased level will muddy the sound, just like before, just with more low impact. Often very ugly, because the crossover of woofer and sub doesn't fit. These are the people that tell you they don't like sub woofer, which is simple nonsense. If you are driving a bicycle and get run over by a car, you may not like automobiles, but still use an ampulance for a quick trip to the hospital. Any 3-way is in some way a sub woofer combination. Just in a single cabinet. Some use sub's for each stereo speaker, what about that?

Such an installation with a sub and without high pass is the same as bi-amping. You only will not get much of an improvement, except for the low end the sub can deliver.
Maybe read opinions about bi-amping to get an idea.
 
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