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What else can I do to this old amplifier? I
It is a very simple amplifier with Darlington obsolete outputs, if the offset is fine just enjoy it.
Any ideas on how to assess the fidelity of this amplifier?
For that you will need at least an oscilloscope and a signal generator. Nothing fancy, But I would say, only if you are interested in servicing/evaluating gear. Otherwise just compare it with what you have access and have fun.
 
Distortion on a sine wave needs to hit nearly 5% before it is visible on a'scope. You can catch a malfunctioning unit with a 'scope, but you can't minimize distortion below about 5% without a distortion analyzer.
 
Distortion on a sine wave needs to hit nearly 5% before it is visible on a'scope. You can catch a malfunctioning unit with a 'scope, but you can't minimize distortion below about 5% without a distortion analyzer.
Is a starting point... he could look for crossover distortion, HF oscillations, etc etc and will be better than a multimeter, but I'm agree that if he needs more, he can go from a DAC+interface and REW, a QA-403, a Panasonic VP7725D to ASR aficionados favorite; AP gear.
 
Is a starting point... he could look for crossover distortion, HF oscillations, etc etc and will be better than a multimeter, but I'm agree that if he needs more, he can go from a DAC+interface and REW, a QA-403, a Panasonic VP7725D to ASR aficionados favorite; AP gear.
AP gear is not cheap. Usually, companies buy that, not hobbyists who aren't wealthy. That means this chicken! Bedawk!
 
AP gear is not cheap.
Terribly expensive I would say. I said it as a little bit of humor (unsuccessfully).

Anyway, if the fellow wants to start to test gear, a scope and Sig.Gen, is a great way to start. IMO.
 
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Any ideas on how to assess the fidelity of this amplifier? The only thing I can compare with at home is a not quite so old yet old Denon AVR-2105.
That is good enough comparison when everything seems OK, because only electrolytic capacitors were replaced and that approximately restores original distortion specifications of the manual. Measure AC/DC with the multimeter on amps for accurate sine wave comparison.
 
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Distortion on a sine wave needs to hit nearly 5% before it is visible on a'scope. You can catch a malfunctioning unit with a 'scope, but you can't minimize distortion below about 5% without a distortion analyzer.
This is a widely accepted opinion, however wrong. It applies only to low order harmonic distortion, and the limit is rather about 2%. Talking about clipping and crossover distortion, the scope screen may show distortion as low as of 0.01% order. In a technical discussion, I would recommend to spread only facts based on deep personal experience and knowledge.
 
AP gear is not cheap. Usually, companies buy that, not hobbyists who aren't wealthy. That means this chicken! Bedawk!
REW and a cheap interface then (and some resistors for a divider to drop speaker output level to something the interface can handle)
 
Thanks for the input. Most measurement instruments mentioned are new to me. I cut my teeth on an HP VNA 8409 in a university lab in the 1980s:
VNA8410.jpg

And on HP and Techtronics TDRs (Time Domain Reflectometers).

Is capacitor degradation the only ageing mechanism to consider in audio amplifiers like the X-A2? In my old line of trade we struggled with parametric drift in RF transistors causing a shift in bias current. Anything like that for audio amplifiers?

/Martin
PS Before I left university we had up-graded to the then brand new 8510 VNA: https://hpmemoryproject.org/technics/bench/8510/bench_8510_home.htm Expensive? You bet!! HP stands for High Price :-) Good? Peerless!! And a mind-blowing up-grade.
 
Thanks for the input. Most measurement instruments mentioned are new to me. I cut my teeth on an HP VNA 8409 in a university lab in the 1980s:
View attachment 454215
And on HP and Techtronics TDRs (Time Domain Reflectometers).

Is capacitor degradation the only ageing mechanism to consider in audio amplifiers like the X-A2? In my old line of trade we struggled with parametric drift in RF transistors causing a shift in bias current. Anything like that for audio amplifiers?

/Martin
PS Before I left university we had up-graded to the then brand new 8510 VNA: https://hpmemoryproject.org/technics/bench/8510/bench_8510_home.htm Expensive? You bet!! HP stands for High Price :) Good? Peerless!! And a mind-blowing up-grade.
Then HP became Agilent, which later became Keysight.
 
Is capacitor degradation the only ageing mechanism to consider in audio amplifiers like the X-A2? In my old line of trade we struggled with parametric drift in RF transistors causing a shift in bias current. Anything like that for audio amplifiers?
Not really, feedback tends to iron out such issues pretty well. You might find yourself with a blown-up power stage and output devices that have gone EOL years earlier one day. Last time at the repair café there was a dead Kenwood KA-770D which uses relatively low power 16A Sanken MT-200 case devices (2SC2921 and complementary)... good luck trying to find spares for those in this day and age.


Update on last page's tuner projects:
Kenwood KT-80 has got new 2200µ/35V filter cap (16x32 mm, I would not advise fitting anything higher) to replace stock 1000µ/25V which was getting tight in terms of voltage at 24.1 V max and possibly incontinent, plus an extra 47µ/25 got tacked on in parallel to AFC capacitor C72 to make the AFC less sticky and clean up the LO signal (possibly bass response) when it's on.
KT-900 got a new 2200µ/35V as well, as it was now substantially behind the modified KT-80 in terms of hum on the LO. (Still a bit more "hum" than "buzz", maybe the 100µ/25V C95 or the 10µ/16V in feedback C98 could stand being replaced as well.) Could fit 18.5x35.5 mm easily if you insisted. Since AFC is still original, there is a good bit more rumble to be heard when locked.
"Blogalike" entries now exist for the former and the latter.
EDIT: After the third entry, I thought it prudent to create a dedicated new page. There's also the first KT-900 mods now.

Anyone got a clue where to look when the LO signal is being modulated (with a flat frequency response as heard on an FM tuner, not lowpass filtered like the AFC signal) when a stronger station is being received? A bunch of my portables do this (and the smaller the worse it is), but I noticed that the KT-80 also does. I thought it had something to do with limiting and the supply being dragged down (though the exact mechanism of demodulation is unclear to me), but maybe it's happening inside the frontend already?
 
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Modified Sound Technology ST1700B to match my ST1701A, as best I could.

Oscillator, Analyzer and Power supply stages.

SINAD about 102 dB @ 1KHz @ 3volt with 400 Hz and 80 KHz filters engaged. BTW, my ST1701A just beats it at 100KHz but otherwise they perform the same.

IMG_2945.jpg
IMG_2947.jpg
IMG_2948.jpg
 
Thanks for the input. Most measurement instruments mentioned are new to me. I cut my teeth on an HP VNA 8409 in a university lab in the 1980s:
View attachment 454215
And on HP and Techtronics TDRs (Time Domain Reflectometers).

Is capacitor degradation the only ageing mechanism to consider in audio amplifiers like the X-A2? In my old line of trade we struggled with parametric drift in RF transistors causing a shift in bias current. Anything like that for audio amplifiers?

/Martin
PS Before I left university we had up-graded to the then brand new 8510 VNA: https://hpmemoryproject.org/technics/bench/8510/bench_8510_home.htm Expensive? You bet!! HP stands for High Price :) Good? Peerless!! And a mind-blowing up-grade.
Love the HP-150 PC!
 
Next up: Denon AVR-2106:
250611_Denon_AVR-2106_i_delar.jpg

Something is up with the INPUT B'D (board in the middle to the right). I have found that a rather noticeable distortion level goes away if I can get signals into the amplifier without using the (analogue) INPUT B'D. Nothing obviously burnt so I hope re-capping is going to fix it. While I am at it I will re-cap the PRE AMP B'D also (bottom board to the right).

I don't envy the people producing these: Lots of screws, cables and other connections to piece together.

/Martin
 
Next up: Denon AVR-2106:
View attachment 457066
Something is up with the INPUT B'D (board in the middle to the right). I have found that a rather noticeable distortion level goes away if I can get signals into the amplifier without using the (analogue) INPUT B'D. Nothing obviously burnt so I hope re-capping is going to fix it. While I am at it I will re-cap the PRE AMP B'D also (bottom board to the right).

I don't envy the people producing these: Lots of screws, cables and other connections to piece together.

/Martin
Re-capping done.

I have listened some now and the rather obvious issue that triggered this renovation is gone: mission accomplished.

Is my AVR-2105 (not 2106 as stated above) back in mint condition? I don't know. Probably not but having no known good reference to compare to I fail to detect any issues so far.

/Martin
 
What do you mean by reference? Specifications for THD are 0.7% at 6 ohms and 0.08% at 8 ohms nominal.
What I had in mind was that all testing has been relying on my highly calibrated ears and all they tell me is that the obvious issue (distortion) that made me start this project is 'gone'. But to know if I brought the amplifier up to 'new status' standards I would have to compare with an amplifier I know is of that status. (And do proper blind testing...)

/Martin
 
I would have to compare with an amplifier I know is of that status. (And do proper blind testing...)
That is what I thought, but you do not technically need listening testing here. Electronic test equipment was used to make the amp specifications. That amp is close to the absolute threshold of the ears.
 
Now that hamfest season is in full swing it's for time cleaning up projects languishing in my to-do pile!

Finally getting to a pair of Mac 60's, long overlooked due to the onslaught of Class D technology!

L1020032.JPG

No shortage of new projects, once these are done.


L1020033.JPG
 
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