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What is 'incompetent digital' ?

fas42

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All generalizations are false, except this one, of course.
Merely pointing out why there is a need to optimise digital beyond getting good readings from the easy, obvious measurement tools - I've been listening to unpleasant sound from vast numbers of systems set up by others for decades, which motivates me to get rid of the artifacts from my own gear. These issues are not intrinsic to digital, in the theoretical sense - they result from poor implementation. This is easy to prove, for myself, because I start with grubby, mid-fi sound - miles from anything decent - and steadily evolve it to a quality which allows it to be run at maximum volume, for any length of time, with complete ease in the listening. So, what's happened? I do nothing to the FR, or change key components, or electronic active parts, like transistors - I simply identify all the shortcuts, and bypass all the junk areas, strengthen the ability of the system to reject interference from any source. In the conventional measurement sense nothing whatsoever worthwhile has been done - yet the subjective difference, and improvement is enormous.

The fact that what I do is so hard to measure in terms of showing a numerical difference, is exactly why the audio industry is caught in a vortex of lack of understanding, and a chaos of thinking reigns ...
 
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amirm

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Amir, I 'm not sure I follow. A level matched blind test comparing what to what exactly? The analog bypass test seems interesting, except I don't readily see how the possibilty of A/D colorations complementary to a given DAC can be seperated.
I thought you were asking how we can determine which coloration in two DACs is more truthful. I was observing that if there is such a coloration in both DACs, then they must sound different and that difference shows up in ABX testing. Without that confirmation, we don't want to jump into which coloration is more truthful.

On the second, countless different A/D converters are used to make music. We have no control over that. So let's use one and see which DAC sounds closer to the original.
 

AJ Soundfield

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Amir, I 'm not sure I follow. A level matched blind test comparing what to what exactly? The analog bypass test seems interesting, except I don't readily see how the possibilty of A/D colorations which happen to be more complementary to one of the DACs under test can be dependably factored out.
Once more, the MiniDSP is both ADC and DAC, if it adds any "coloration" to the signal, this would be apparent in a bypass test. An analog source can be used.
 
OP
Opus111

Opus111

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Well, the first thing to determine, are believers claiming the MiniDSP is "audible"?

Direct your question to believers and perhaps they'll answer you?

So when can we expect to see believers put this to a valid controlled ears only (no peeking) listening test?

See above.
 

AJ Soundfield

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Tomchr over on DIYAudio has recently posted up some measurements of a miniDSP unit. He's a relatively new convert to multitone testing (so far though only 32 tones in his stimulus) and the plot of the DAC output provided with this stimulus shows significant intermodulation 'grass' rising steadily with frequency.
Yes "see" it. So what?
 

AJ Soundfield

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Tomchr over on DIYAudio has recently posted up some measurements of a miniDSP unit. He's a relatively new convert to multitone testing (so far though only 32 tones in his stimulus) and the plot of the DAC output provided with this stimulus shows significant intermodulation 'grass' rising steadily with frequency.

Imagination whirring again.
Yep
 

AJ Soundfield

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Tomchr over on DIYAudio has recently posted up some measurements of a miniDSP unit. He's a relatively new convert to multitone testing (so far though only 32 tones in his stimulus) and the plot of the DAC output provided with this stimulus shows significant intermodulation 'grass' rising steadily with frequency.
Do you see the significance of multitone measurements 'grass' rising steadily with frequency?
Tell us
 

AJ Soundfield

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MiniDSP-4x10-HD_-Multi-Tone-IMD-32-tone-Vout-2-V-RMS.png


Imagination again.

I agree, referencing audio
 

AJ Soundfield

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Tomchr over on DIYAudio has recently posted up some measurements of a miniDSP unit. He's a relatively new convert to multitone testing (so far though only 32 tones in his stimulus) and the plot of the DAC output provided with this stimulus shows significant intermodulation 'grass' rising steadily with frequency.
Do you see the significance of multitone measurements 'grass' rising steadily with frequency?

^^^^^^
Evidence
 
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