What is going on with Paradigm?

[MattHooper]

A long time ago I actually used some PSB monitors for my work. They were actually quite neutral (or on the slightly "sweet" side of neutral, a tad forgiving in the upper frequencies as I remember).

I auditioned the Persona speakers twice and each time found my ears getting fatigued over time, in a way that wasn't happening with many other speakers I was auditioning at the time. I later saw the measurements - that high frequency rise especially - which seemed to explain it somewhat.

 

[watchnerd]

Yup. That is: not "everything" but also not "nothing." Some of us are cautious, but not utterly cynical ;-)

I have found some of the subjective reviews in Stereophile to be very "accurate" to what I've heard from the product (speaker usually) in question.
And there are always the measurements for anyone who wants to skip the subjective stuff. It's a nice balance IMO.

And the subjective reviews vary immensely in terms of poetic license according to the writer.

@Kal Rubinson tends to write things that I can translate to into personal sonic understandings.

Herb Reichert's writing, on the other hand, sometimes reminds me of discussing music with acquaintances of mine who have done a lot of LSD.

I can read @Kal Rubinson when sober.

To read Herb, I really need to have a toke first.

 

[MattHooper]

And the subjective reviews vary immensely in terms of poetic license according to the writer.

@Kal Rubinson tends to write things that I can translate to into personal sonic understandings.

Herb Reichert's writing, on the other hand, sometimes reminds me of discussing music with acquaintances of mine who have done a lot of LSD.

I can read @Kal Rubinson when sober.

To read Herb, I really need to have a toke first.

Oh I can understand that.

But even with Herb, while sometimes he can get a bit too abstract for me, when I've read him on some speakers I'm very familiar with I "get" what he's saying about them. For instance I've owned Joseph Audio speakers and Harbeth speakers, and in his Joseph speaker review he did a good job of getting at the strengths of the Josephs, and when he compared them to Harbeths, I found the differences he described to be bang on. He zeroed in on precisely the thing that I zeroed in on and would have described as well.

I love listening to speakers and talking about them to other people - thank goodness I have some audio buddies, including some reviewers, who are great to rap with and we can articulate what we hear to each other. I view subjective reviews, at least ones I like, as a sort of extension of that fun..."what does this person think of that speaker and how would he describe it's attributes?"

(And since I do enjoy subjective reviews I'm also pretty critical of them as well, and hate really badly written reviews, of which there are plenty).

 

[andreasmaaan]

The fact is that this aluminum drivers are measuring badly in this speaker.
Do you think that the old Paradigm speakers that were measuring well were using all aluminum drivers?
I do not think so.

Aluminium for a tweeter is already a difficult issue, then aluminum for all drivers seems to me a craziness.
It is just my point and this speaker range from Paradigm confirm it.

As @617 said, aluminium is one of the few materials that performs excellently for drivers ranging from subwoofers to tweeters.

What, in technical terms, is the problem with aluminium in your opinion?

 

[JSHamlet234]

I'm in the camp that believes that "batman" curve is intentional. I have a low-budget, slapdash system in my current car with no provision for EQ. It's an old noisy convertible that had a few blown speakers, so I just wanted something that actually worked and could fight the wind noise. To make a long story short, I found the sound surprisingly engaging. "Money for Nothing" by the Dire Straits and "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor were mind-bogglingly good, while "Layla" by Eric Clapton was poor. Aside from the occasional flub, however, most people who've heard it, *really* like it at first. It had to be measured. Broad and fairly deep dips at 300 & 3K from the drivers seat with very little tilt in either direction. Interesting, but not something I would want in my listening room. Too fatiguing over time.

 

[mhardy6647]

"Paradigm engineering, untamed"

Upon reflection -- that's a really interesting statement.

 

[watchnerd]

Upon reflection -- that's a really interesting statement.

Isn't it?

 

[mhardy6647]

To read Herb, I really need to have a toke first.

Heh. Herb. Toke.
Heh-heh, heh-heh-heh.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I have to assume it's an intentional deviation for the purpose of creating product differentiation, and thus hopefully, more sales.

Perhaps speaker makers are facing analogous dilemma to DAC makers; if good DACs measure transparent to one another, how do we create unique selling points?

Similarly, if all speakers are shooting for an optimal Klippel target response, how do you differentiate your product?

If you can't win on price, styling, or branding, I guess one option is to make it intentionally sound different.

It seems to work for Klipsch's Heritage line....

My BS alarm gets activated whenever I see a speaker manufacturer claim 'flat' frequency response. As you noted, if all speakers were really flat, there would be difficulty in differentiating their offerings. Speaker manufacturers have a 'house sound' that they follow religiously, and I don't think absolute flatness of frequency response is part of that.

 

[Purité Audio]

The new measurement based loudspeakers don’t have a house sound, they strive for excellence and while there are small differences between them , they are more similar than alike.
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

The new measurement based loudspeakers don’t have a house sound, they strive for excellence and while there are small differences between them , they are more similar than alike.
Keith

From a business POV, is that a good thing?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The new measurement based loudspeakers don’t have a house sound, they strive for excellence and while there are small differences between them , they are more similar than alike.
Keith

Any audio component which has a mechanical as well as an electrical aspect to its operation is going to have a characteristic sound quality.

 

[Purité Audio]

What does that matter, it is good for the consumer and for the credibility of high quality audio reproduction.
Kith

 

[Purité Audio]

Any audio component which has a mechanical as well as an electrical aspect to its operation is going to have a characteristic sound quality.

A contemporary loudspeaker is an amalgam of many parts and technologies, it is the ‘whole’ rather than the parts which are important.
There are still differences between fine measuring loudspeakers, so no need to fear homogenisation just yet.
Keith

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

A contemporary loudspeaker is an amalgam of many parts and technologies, it is the ‘whole’ rather than the parts which are important.
There are still differences between fine measuring loudspeakers, so no need to fear homogenisation just yet.
Keith

Do you do marketing?

 

[Purité Audio]

No.
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

What does that matter, it is good for the consumer and for the credibility of high quality audio reproduction.
Kith

Are you replying to me or @MakeMineVinyl ?

 

[Purité Audio]

Whether it’s good for my small business is neither here nor there, I believe it is good for the ‘industry’ after so many years of lies and turd polishing.
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

Whether it’s good for my small business is neither here nor there, I believe it is good for the ‘industry’ after so many years of lies and turd polishing.
Keith

Oh, sure. I agree it's good for science and the consumer.

But it does create a paradox for speaker makers in terms of how to sell and stay in business in a potentially increasingly commoditized market with race to the bottom economics.

If I had to guess, Paradigm's tailoring of the Persona's sound to a particular, distinctive curve is to allow them to sound "different" is their attempt to deal with this reality.

So they're probably intentionally placing a bet to opt-out of the consensus curve.

The paradox of the consensus curve is that you could see more speaker makers opting out if they conclude that the consensus curve commodity game will be played by anyone who invests in a $50K Klippel rig and cheap enough manufacturing.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

So they're probably intentionally placing a bet to opt-out of the consensus curve.

With the R&D resources they undoubtedly have access to, if they wanted to make a speaker with a truly flat frequency response, they could. Quite obviously they chose not to.