eh, modern art (as is crypto currencies) is just another money laundering scheme
hmm...snake oil ain't that different IMO, really
hmm...snake oil ain't that different IMO, really
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What is an equivalent product to HiFi snake oil?
- Thread starter Punter
- Start date
Hunter Biden expected to meet with potential art buyers before anonymous sales
The art shows allow the president's son to meet potential collectors of his art, seemingly defying the spirit of a White House ethics agreement.
www.cbsnews.com
kemmler3D
Major Contributor
@Punter while I generally highly appreciate your posts and insights on audio gear, unfortunately I think you've missed the mark on this one. What you've definitely established is that you don't care for post-modern art or contemporary art, but "this art is ugly to me, so obviously it's some kind of scam" is not a thoughtful treatment of the subject.
A great deal of modern* (and postmodern, and contemporary) art that doesn't look like much to the casual viewer is actually a commentary on the very things you find objectionable about the art world. However, since it stands as a reaction to features of the art world, or past art movements, it tends to be obscure and inaccessible to anyone that doesn't invest time in studying art history. That's unfortunate but doesn't mean the art itself is snake oil, it's just not aesthetically pleasing to everyone.
There is a vague analogy to trained and untrained listeners here.
Are many critics full of it? Absolutely. Is "modern art" snake oil? Some of it. (Damien Hirst anyone?) But it's pretty clear from this post you haven't really given the topic as much research as you normally do. If you had, I am sure you would not have missed the opportunity to piss all over Duchamp's Fountain.
This post isn't much different than a non-audiophile confidently and smugly declaring: "Anyone who spends over $200 on audio equipment is delusional - I can't hear a difference between my $100 speakers and the $10,000 set in the store, so there isn't one. To me the $10,000 set actually sounded worse. Audiophiles are all imagining things and are fooled by unethical reviewers."
There is a kernel of truth to that statement, but as we well know here, it's maybe half right at best.
IMO the best analogy outside of audio snake oil is homeopathic "medicine" and other alternative health-boosting products. They all produce strong subjective effects via placebo, are pushed by unethical (or deluded) influencers/reviewers, and require their users to deny very basic scientific facts to maintain belief in their efficacy. To my mind they're virtually the same thing. Sugar pills work on your sensation of pain (or whatever) and audio snake oil works on your sense of hearing. Aside from that the only real difference is you don't eat audio products to get their effects.
*The modern period of art ended in the 1970s.
A great deal of modern* (and postmodern, and contemporary) art that doesn't look like much to the casual viewer is actually a commentary on the very things you find objectionable about the art world. However, since it stands as a reaction to features of the art world, or past art movements, it tends to be obscure and inaccessible to anyone that doesn't invest time in studying art history. That's unfortunate but doesn't mean the art itself is snake oil, it's just not aesthetically pleasing to everyone.
There is a vague analogy to trained and untrained listeners here.
Are many critics full of it? Absolutely. Is "modern art" snake oil? Some of it. (Damien Hirst anyone?) But it's pretty clear from this post you haven't really given the topic as much research as you normally do. If you had, I am sure you would not have missed the opportunity to piss all over Duchamp's Fountain.
This post isn't much different than a non-audiophile confidently and smugly declaring: "Anyone who spends over $200 on audio equipment is delusional - I can't hear a difference between my $100 speakers and the $10,000 set in the store, so there isn't one. To me the $10,000 set actually sounded worse. Audiophiles are all imagining things and are fooled by unethical reviewers."
There is a kernel of truth to that statement, but as we well know here, it's maybe half right at best.
IMO the best analogy outside of audio snake oil is homeopathic "medicine" and other alternative health-boosting products. They all produce strong subjective effects via placebo, are pushed by unethical (or deluded) influencers/reviewers, and require their users to deny very basic scientific facts to maintain belief in their efficacy. To my mind they're virtually the same thing. Sugar pills work on your sensation of pain (or whatever) and audio snake oil works on your sense of hearing. Aside from that the only real difference is you don't eat audio products to get their effects.
*The modern period of art ended in the 1970s.
DonR
Major Contributor
Perfume?
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Modern art = hifi snake oil is a huge category error, surely. If anything, art = the music program you're trying to reproduce, and hifi = the viewing conditions offered in the museum or gallery. A better snake-oil analogy would be if someone offered a $10,000 pair of spectacles claimed to be ground from special nano-glass that guaranteed a closer understanding of the art's soul or meaning.
So all we're left with really is an unpleasant rant about a genre the OP doesn't care for. The same can apply to some kinds of music, for some kinds of people.
So all we're left with really is an unpleasant rant about a genre the OP doesn't care for. The same can apply to some kinds of music, for some kinds of people.
napfkuchen
Active Member
When I visited the Documenta art exhibition here in Germany several years ago there was some kind of "laundry room performance art" where women tried to slip into denim trousers which were fixed to washing lines. My father got some angry stares as he said out loud that his mourning routine for putting on clothes would be more efficient.
BlackTalon
Senior Member
cosmetics, skin-care products...
It's amazing how much $$$ some women will spend on skin-care products that don't actually do what they claim (and of course none are verified by lab testing -- only that they don't kill rabbits)
I bought a bottle of Obsession cologne in the 90's and it cost me something like $90 for a larger size. I used it for years everyday and the bottle was barely depleted until I dropped it on the floor, broke the bottle and reeked up my place. Cologne often starts with that big solid blob of stuff whales vomit out, people collect them on the beaches and sell it to people that trade in these kind of goods. It is very expensive and beachcombers looking for the stuff are overjoyed when they find some.
Ambergris: how to tell if you've struck gold with 'whale vomit' or stumbled upon sewage
Highly prized and extremely rare, it’s hard to tell if you’ve stumbled on this piece of sperm whale ‘product’.
theconversation.com
DonR
Major Contributor
I was going to add anti-aging creams. Lots of suggestions in the advertising and they make vague claims as well, just like audio snake oil.
This is probably true – and a rather unpleasant character to boot. As was Picasso. But still unquestionably geniuses of unparalleled imagination.
I recently almost purchased a small print of Dalí's (for a not unreasonable price - a few hundred dollars). It was so good. He was a draftsman of prodigious skill whatever you think of his art. He really had the chops. However, reason (not to mention poverty) got the better of me more's the pity ...
If you really think a five year old can make anything approaching a Picasso or Dalí then you are as delusional as you claim they were.
The prices much contemporary art attains is more an indictment of 21st century finance capitalism than it is of the art itself.
kemmler3D
Major Contributor
Perfume isn't snake oil, it smells however it smells. Its only value proposition is to smell a certain way. It doesn't claim to make you handsomer or smarter. If you think the smell is worth $90 or $200 or whatever, buy it, if not, don't. The reviews tend to be very subjective, but they are genuine attempts to describe a smell (or how they feel when they smell it) which is not at all similar to claiming it's going to change something it has no ability to change.
DonR
Major Contributor
Just like audio, the smell can be rather subjective. My wife loves White Linen... it gives me a headache and makes me want to wretch. Perfume advertising frequently claims to make a person more attractive and using what are widely considered to be beautiful specimens implants the suggestion that the purchaser is also attractive. Furthermore, the margins in perfume are amongst the highest of any product very similar to audio snake oil like cables.
Pretty much never. I know how difficult it is having studied art and design.
In the musical realm, would you say any five year old could play like Anthony Braxton or Ornette Colman? Merzbow? Fred Frith? John Zorn? I've long thought Derek Bailey is the greatest guitarist who ever lived. I fear you may not agree. ;-)
A better analogy for hifi snake oil is probably 'alternative' medicine/therapies. AKA 'woo' ...
Robin L
Major Contributor
I make art. I find that I put in much more energy creating art than I receive from others, though that hasn't stopped me so far:
As regards snake oil, this is my favorite:
As regards snake oil, this is my favorite:
I say I have no idea what people see in paint splotches on canvass. A lot of art I enjoy a lot. But not the stuff I don't understand and it looks like I could paint it. What splotches thrown onto a white background is supposed to mean is beyond me. But, art I like, I enjoy! But I have not been cultured into the ways of the art world. After all I like Bob Ross!
Cars-N-Cans
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Never knew I was an aspiring artist as a kid, and a true creative powerhouse in college. I feel robbed of a future that could have been...
Cars-N-Cans
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Having seen the alternatives, I would say that this is the lesser of two evils.
I was offered a art study in grade 9 for the remainder of my high school studies. I declined. In retrospect it might have been interesting.
You could have been a famous artist and displayed your work at the DALI museum!I was offered a art study in grade 9 for the remainder of my high school studies. I declined. In retrospect it might have been interesting.
