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What is an equivalent product to HiFi snake oil?

Sokel

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bag.PNG


2 (two) million USD.
 

Keith_W

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By the way, with all the misery in the world, why did you spend the time to write that post?

I spend all day treating patients and I have seen more than my fair share of misery and have spent a lot of time alleviating their anxiety and suffering. So I come home to unwind a bit because I can't spend all day and all night treating patients, even though I have done so quite a few times in my career. Awake all day, up all night, same thing for the next few days. If time spent alleviating misery was a criterion, then I have more than earnt my right to write that post.
 

Galliardist

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Sokel

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But it does its job as perfectly as any other piece of "I'm really really rich" bling.

It would be the obvious and slightly expensive copy that would be snake oil, surely?
If you ask me I'm all for extravagant things but that doesn't stop me of knowing that it does the job a plastic 2 cents bag can do as well.
But I like it!
 

ahofer

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I spend all day treating patients and I have seen more than my fair share of misery and have spent a lot of time alleviating their anxiety and suffering. So I come home to unwind a bit because I can't spend all day and all night treating patients, even though I have done so quite a few times in my career. Awake all day, up all night, same thing for the next few days. If time spent alleviating misery was a criterion, then I have more than earnt my right to write that post.
As we have earned the right, after a day’s work, to complain about audio snake oil on a website called "Audio Science Review" ...that was my point, thank you for clarifying it.
 
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Punter

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I am in agreement with the assertion that "snake-oil" audio products don't do any significant harm to anyone or society in general. We tend to be more immersed in the environment of audio products and so it seems that there are hordes of predators trying to sell "quantum cables" to frail old ladies and other vulnerable individuals. The fact is the whole "high end' HiFi market is an absolute tiddler compared to even domestic electronics. Samsung probably reaps more profit just from washing machines in a year than the whole snake-oil business globally.

Most of us here on ASR share some common attributes, an appreciation of music, an understanding of music reproduction equipment and an appreciation of the mechanisms by which we can listen to music. As far as snake oil goes, we mostly seem to also have a dislike of the pseudoscience and bald-faced lies broadcast by the manufacturers, reviewers and dealers who combine to create an air of validity around these products.

A box of dirt, sold as a "grounding" device by some quack "designer/engineer" will almost definitely not bring about the destruction of society or life on earth but we can be collectively angry that there are people who would promote this as an effective device and have the dishonesty to take money off another individual for it.
 

ahofer

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The usual argument about culture and "classical music" would apply here. Who are the great artists striving for high art and telling us of the history of the period? What you will get from "classical" or art music falls into two categories:
1) what the composer's patron or effective boss wanted:
2) what the middle classes will turn up and listen to.
Yup. For sure, concert hall music is “high art”, indicative of the tastes and aspirations of a tiny elite, but not a window into the broader culture of a time. Even today it’s a niche audience.
 

ahofer

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Most of us here on ASR share some common attributes, an appreciation of music, an understanding of music reproduction equipment and an appreciation of the mechanisms by which we can listen to music. As far as snake oil goes, we mostly seem to also have a dislike of the pseudoscience and bald-faced lies broadcast by the manufacturers, reviewers and dealers who combine to create an air of validity around these products.
I’m also annoyed at how magical and unsupported assertions crowd out real improvements.

Perhaps it is just what we see. After all, the amazing progress in Class D happened while we were watching all the other nonsense. But there are leaps and bounds to be made in EQ, etc., and most speaker companies can’t even be bothered to make linear designs. The future is being squandered.
 

Mnyb

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It isn't. You should be spending your energy arguing against more insidious forms of snake oil other than audio snake oil. To me there are several levels of snake oil, from most harmful to least harmful:

- Snake oil that damages your health. Examples are all forms of medical snake oil - homeopathy, chiropractic, alternative medicine, vaccine denial.
- Snake oil that damages society. Climate change denial, opposing gun control, political extremism, religious cults, science denial.
- Snake oil that damages you financially. Get rich quick schemes, pyramid schemes.
- Snake oil that makes you look stupid. Belief in UFO's, crystals, zombies, conspiracy theorists, cryptozoology ... and audio snake oil.
I like that :) with some reservations.

I would have society damaging snake oil at the top , and science denial at the top of these .

And you can’t arange these in one dimension user drallim is also rigth it all leads back to science denial regardless of which of those you started off from.

And all kinds of snake oil beliefs leads to that one easily falls prey to more off them and more serious ones , it a wedge into your sanity.
We witnessed this first hand where I live . Happened to many men like myself ( middle aged white middle class ), many of my peers have literally gone off the hook and believes every conspiracy theory social media will sell to you in your bubble , they bought a whole package deal.

And you other post falls apart somewhat as there is no actual difference between high brow and low brow culture consumption only taste and social status and positioning one self in social strata :) I’ve got more relaxed in this department the older I get . I also consumed music in a more elitist fashion when I was younger.

Btw I did not find your post political.
 

ahofer

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I like that :) with some reservations.

I would have society damaging snake oil at the top , and science denial at the top of these .

And you can’t arange these in one dimension user drallim is also rigth it all leads back to science denial regardless of which of those you started off from.

And all kinds of snake oil beliefs leads to that one easily falls prey to more off them and more serious ones , it a wedge into your sanity.
We witnessed this first hand where I live . Happened to many men like myself ( middle aged white middle class ), many of my peers have literally gone off the hook and believes every conspiracy theory social media will sell to you in your bubble , they bought a whole package deal.

And you other post falls apart somewhat as there is no actual difference between high brow and low brow culture consumption only taste and social status and positioning one self in social strata :) I’ve got more relaxed in this department the older I get . I also consumed music in a more elitist fashion when I was younger.

Btw I did not find your post political.
I like the Homeopathy analogy a lot. Not because it is somehow morally equivalent, but because there are a lot of similar mechanisms where normal scientific belief has to be suspended to stay faithful. Also because those folks who believe in magical audio characteristics would mostly scoff at homeopathy for those same reasons.
 

killdozzer

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And all kinds of snake oil beliefs leads to that one easily falls prey to more off them and more serious ones
^^This! It shapes the thought process. That's why I often appear way too strict on some trivial, unimportant things. It's because I'm not telling people don't buy bling cables, I'm trying to tell them don't think that way as it will prove fatal in some other life situations.
 

Keith_W

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Actually, there is another type of snake oil which I forgot to include: academic snake oil. Entire academic fields are nothing but pure snake oil. Examples: gender studies, fat studies, and parts of other humanities seem to be infested with these. Not to mention groupthink within certain academic circles (of which humanities is the most egregious example) - there was recently a lawsuit in Australia where an academic was fired from his job for questioning the existing dogma from his own University about published studies on the Great Barrier Reef (he won that lawsuit). Australians on this forum would be familiar with regular pronouncements in the newspapers that "The Great Barrier Reef is dead" because of a new study. This has been going on for more than 20 years. This exposed collusion between academics and journals to push a certain narrative.

As a scientist myself, I am only able to question journals within my own academic field with any authority. I can tell you that 90% of published papers in my own field are worthless, especially anything published in certain journals like the MJA (Medical Journal of Australia). Most of these are really entertaining to read because in the end most of the papers are about cash grabs.
 

ahofer

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Actually, there is another type of snake oil which I forgot to include: academic snake oil. Entire academic fields are nothing but pure snake oil. Examples: gender studies, fat studies, and parts of other humanities seem to be infested with these. Not to mention groupthink within certain academic circles (of which humanities is the most egregious example) - there was recently a lawsuit in Australia where an academic was fired from his job for questioning the existing dogma from his own University about published studies on the Great Barrier Reef (he won that lawsuit). Australians on this forum would be familiar with regular pronouncements in the newspapers that "The Great Barrier Reef is dead" because of a new study. This has been going on for more than 20 years. This exposed collusion between academics and journals to push a certain narrative.

As a scientist myself, I am only able to question journals within my own academic field with any authority. I can tell you that 90% of published papers in my own field are worthless, especially anything published in certain journals like the MJA (Medical Journal of Australia). Most of these are really entertaining to read because in the end most of the papers are about cash grabs.
Related: we recently had this controversy about an art history professor showing a depiction of Mohammed, which I find pretty disturbing. I think this department letter is excellent.


I suppose I’m veering OT.
 

Holmz

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Related: we recently had this controversy about an art history professor showing a depiction of Mohammed, which I find pretty disturbing. I think this department letter is excellent.


I suppose I’m veering OT.

Why would find it disturbing?
The fellow road a horse to heaven, according to Salmon.
 

ahofer

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Why would find it disturbing?
The fellow road a horse to heaven, according to Salmon.
Not the picture, the University administration's behavior.
 

Andretti60

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Actually, there is another type of snake oil which I forgot to include: academic snake oil. Entire academic fields are nothing but pure snake oil. Examples: gender studies, …
And you claim that based on what authority? What do you know about gender identity?
 

Plcamp

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I look down the long rows of products to solve your car maintenance and performance improvements with the suspicion that there must be (simply given the available variety) a large number of snakey-products here…some of which are actually oil.

So “Car care” … with particular focus on “higher performance” is my nominee for this thread!
 

Dan

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The golf world is full of them. Crappy training aids, self described golf gurus with their special systems, etc

The gambling world has it as well. Any field where people are desperate for improvement leads to this. The scammers know how to find the desperate, that's for sure
 

egellings

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But it does its job as perfectly as any other piece of "I'm really really rich" bling.

It would be the obvious and slightly expensive copy that would be snake oil, surely?
Next question would be, exactly what do you carry in such a luxurious handbag?
 
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