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What Is An Audiophile?

fpitas

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My audiophile experience runs from my first serious amplifier Sansui AU-607 in 1980 to the present day. Based on that experience (I didn't make graphs or measure anything) I write posts. But it seems that the obsession among some that everyone has to buy some audio toys, or they don't know what they are doing is too strong. I will repeat it one more time. Do whatever you want, but let others enjoy the perfect sound.
Like usual, your "advice" drips with irony.
 

Aleksandar RS

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Not to derail the thread, but the surprising thing isn't that people will spend 5-10x on a device that isn't better than the less expensive one. That's not surprising, since subjectivity and various bias does creep in pretty readily. Same with wine or designer clothes - the expectation of quality shapes the experience.

What's different about audio gear is that its performance is measurable and quantifiable, because they're machines, and the quality people SAY they are after can be measured accurately.

The surprise happens when people SAY they're after high performance, but don't seek out, or even actively ignore measurements, and just buy something (apparently) BECAUSE it costs more, no other clear reason. This isn't most people, but it is some people, and it remains a bit of a mystery / surprise.

As for whether anyone convinces them to be like that... no, I guess not, unless they go to the wrong Hi-Fi shop, or read TAS, What Hi-Fi, Positive Feedback, or any of the other flowery advertorials disguised as reviews out there, or read any audio forums except this one and a small handful of others.

As for buying something just because it's more expensive, I agree that it doesn't make any sense. And yes, the purchase of a particular audio device is caused more by subjective perception than by clearly defined facts.
 

bodhi

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Do whatever you want, but let others enjoy the perfect sound.

Why do you keep repeating that when nobody cares at all how much people spend money on weird stuff.

It becomes problem when these people start making claims that don't make any sense and refuse to provide proof.

Remember that there are forums where you are protected by the rules and moderators against toxic doubters and unfair requests for evidence.
 

computer-audiophile

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From my audiophile biography:

Since I was ten years old, I have been fascinated by music, physics and the hi-fi technology that emerged in the sixties. Since my youth I have also been interested in technical aesthetics, design and fine arts.

As early as 1964, when I was a boarding school student at the Maria Tann monastery in the Black Forest, I tinkered with radio tubes and built amplifiers for our beat band. Since then, I've worked my way up the hi-fi hierarchy and moved a lot of stuff around. But that doesn't mean that I own expensive high-end equipment today. In principle I follow the motto of the designer Dieter Rams, which is: Less, but better!
 

Aleksandar RS

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Why do you keep repeating that when nobody cares at all how much people spend money on weird stuff.

It becomes problem when these people start making claims that don't make any sense and refuse to provide proof.

Remember that there are forums where you are protected by the rules and moderators against toxic doubters and unfair requests for evidence.

Are you aware that this is: What Is An Audiophile?

And as for the rest of your post, do you read posts other than mine. How many times has it been repeated that buying more expensive things is a waste of money. Well, I don't think so. This is a thread about audiophiles, and audiophiles don't have any paper or formula to prove what perfect sound is. It is (I will repeat when I have to) a subjective perception. I don't understand how you haven't figured it out yet.
 

kemmler3D

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the purchase of a particular audio device is caused more by subjective perception than by clearly defined facts.
Within reason, this is not a problem, but when it comes to people spending $30K+ on cables or something, it becomes so "surprising" that people feel the need to start entire websites like ASR to combat the phenomenon... :D
 

Timcognito

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Surprising to me is how few posts there are here at ASR about recording quality, recording labels, microphones and placement, recording techniques, mixing, pressing etc. Not to say there aren't any but it's vastly about the playback gear here. Seems that to be true "audiophile" this would be just as important. It's like having a sports blog that rarely talks about conditioning, training, diet, and tactics and only talks about the ball, pads and shoes. I am not condemning or condoning, only observing that here it's about the playback gear. I guess this is not audiophile site per say but it is inhabited by a lot of audiophiles, of which I'm not sure I am. I think of it more as hobby as I love music and as an engineer I come here because I am attracted to science, and the gear. That said, I do enjoy when related topics are discussed and debated and have gotten many tips and education on set up, recording, history and music.
 

fpitas

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Surprising to me is how few posts there are here at ASR about recording quality, recording labels, microphones and placement, recording techniques, mixing, pressing etc. Not to say there aren't any but it's vastly about the playback gear here. Seems that to be true "audiophile" this would be just as important. It's like having a sports blog that rarely talks about conditioning, training, diet, and tactics and only talks about the ball, pads and shoes. I am not condemning or condoning, only observing that here it's about the playback gear. I guess this is not audiophile site per say but it is inhabited by a lot of audiophiles, of which I'm not sure I am. I think of it more as hobby as I love music and as an engineer I come here because I am attracted to science, and the gear. That said, I do enjoy when related topics are discussed and debated and have gotten many tips and education on set up, recording, history and music.
You're right, not much on production here; but there isn't much that the typical listener can do to correct perceived deficiencies in the recording.
 

Aleksandar RS

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Within reason, this is not a problem, but when it comes to people spending $30K+ on cables or something, it becomes so "surprising" that people feel the need to start entire websites like ASR to combat the phenomenon... :D

For that money, I agree with you, and subjective perception has its limits, at least for me. Whether there are any changes in the sound or not, I won't even think about it, because in my opinion it's already turning into madness.
 

JRS

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That used to be my interpretation as well. Sadly the industry is so distorted with magazines and forums, now for me audiophile is just a way to sell extremely overpriced snake oils.
No those would be audiofools. True audiophiles at least attempt to understand the physical principles behind high quality recording and playback. Granted, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but departing the land of reason to pay hundreds of bucks for quarter sized felt discs to put on ones windows to kill resonances and promote harmony--thats pure la-la land audiofoolery and not to be confused with the real deal.
 

JRS

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You're right, not much on production here; but there isn't much that the typical listener can do to correct perceived deficiencies in the recording.
There are experts present (I'm not one of them) and on occasion a thread will take a deep dive into recording tech. But yes it is primarily a consumer site. Plenty of other forums devoted to recording techniques and gear.
 

bodhi

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Are you aware that this is: What Is An Audiophile?

And as for the rest of your post, do you read posts other than mine. How many times has it been repeated that buying more expensive things is a waste of money. Well, I don't think so. This is a thread about audiophiles, and audiophiles don't have any paper or formula to prove what perfect sound is. It is (I will repeat when I have to) a subjective perception. I don't understand how you haven't figured it out yet.

Waste of money if you buy it because you think it actually changes the sound when it doesn't, at least audibly. And we have to remember that you have changed your stance on things in last few days: at first you argued, correct me if I'm wrong, that there might actually be a change in the sound even if it cannot be measured, then it was more reliable components and customer service and now it is "just let people buy what they want". If you stick with the last one then I hope you don't get any more flak.

But anyways, however you define audiophile it has to do with audio, right? And in this case if you want to make equipment part of the equation then the devices have to actually do something. As regardless of what the formula is for "the perfect sound" it has to do with the sound itself which can be measured very easily. Equipment that doesn't cause measurable difference in the sound is just furniture, jewelry or decoration, making sound better by changing how the brain interprets it. But stick with "perfect experience" and again I hope you don't get complaints and you can be free to improve the experience with esoteric equipment or for example various edible substances that have a huge effect.
 
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Aleksandar RS

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Waste of money if you buy it because you think it actually changes the sound when it doesn't, at least audibly. And we have to remember that you have changed your stance on things in last few days: at first you argued, correct me if I'm wrong, that there might actually be a change in the sound even if it cannot be measured, then it was more reliable components and customer service and now it is "just let people buy what they want". If you stick with the last one then I hope you don't get any more flak.

But anyways, however you define audiophile it has to do with audio, right? And in this case if you want to make equipment part of the equation then the devices have to actually do something. As regardless of what the formula is for "the perfect sound" it has to do with the sound itself which can be measured very easily. Equipment that doesn't cause measurable difference in the sound is just furniture, jewelry or decoration, making sound better by changing how the brain interprets it. But stick with "perfect experience" and again I hope you don't get complaints and you can be free to improve the experience with esoteric equipment or for example various edible substances that have a huge effect.

I agree with everything I've said so far.
 

Mr. Widget

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That used to be my interpretation as well. Sadly the industry is so distorted with magazines and forums, now for me audiophile is just a way to sell extremely overpriced snake oils.
Don't accept that.

If some on-line hack wants to rail on cable lifters, specially blessed network gear, or other silliness then let them. To be sure there absolutely are audiophiles who worship at the alter of such silliness, but there are also many who buy raw drivers at Parts Express and do their best to make a better sounding system than they could otherwise afford.
 

Sal1950

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The "high" in high fidelity is not an absolute.

Back in the 70's and 80's vinyl was the highest fidelity generally available in the home. It is just as high today, or higher (with modern electronics). The fact that there are even higher fidelity formats doesn't negate that.

Further - anyone who uses both vinyl and digital can be said to be interested in different levels of high fidelity - including the highest.
As were 78s both acoustic and electronic, 45s, and Edison cylinders.
Would you call them high fidelity today just because they had their day in the sun.?
 

Aleksandar RS

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I don't doubt that for a second.

I really don't know how to answer this. I'll try it this way:

So why did you write such a post, I assume it's clear to you that my statements do not contradict each other. They build on each other, that's all my opinion.
 

Sal1950

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That would exclude everyone on ASR who owns a turntable, because as I keep getting told here, nobody here claims that a TT is a path to very high fidelity.
No, only if they didn't own a first rate digital component also.
Would you call someone an audiophile if they owned a $10,000 system but only used AM radio for a source?
For reasons similar to the ones given by Newman, I've said before:

I think the definition "An Audiophile is someone who is enthusiastic about high quality sound reproduction" is probably the best catch-all for what ties audiophiles together. Some do this by seeking accurate equipment, others look for or accept some level of coloration. Insofar as "high fidelity" is a synonym for "accuracy," seeking merely "accuracy" doesn't cover all this. That's because "accuracy" doesn't necessitate "good sound." (Your source may have poor sound quality - reproduce that with "high fidelity" and you will get poor sound. Most of us are in this for at least the potential for "better sound quality.").
IMHO, Audiophool is the catch-all.
If a persons true goal isn't to own a system "capable" of reproducing music in a SOTA manner, or as close as he can afford
he's not a true audiophile. The goal of true High Fidelity system (accurate to the source) has always been the dream of a true "Audiophile".

It's sad that the general pubic believes the term simply defines someone who spends a lot of cash.
 
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