• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

What is a Trained Listener?

Pennyless Audiophile

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
170
Likes
163
Location
UK
If the subject has been covered already, apologies.

What is trained user exactly? What kind of training makes you a trained listener? How do you acquire it?
I am genuinely asking because I see this figure referenced quite often but I don't know what it means, exactly.

Thank you.
 

acbarn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
1,238
Likes
2,919
Location
California
If the subject has been covered already, apologies.

What is trained user exactly? What kind of training makes you a trained listener? How do you acquire it?
I am genuinely asking because I see this figure referenced quite often but I don't know what it means, exactly.

Thank you.
 

Bullwinkle J Moose

Active Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
217
Likes
82
Depends on what you are training for

I could tell the type and order of passive crossovers a few decades back just by listening to a good set of speakers in the shops

Active crossovers usually had me stumped though

I seriously doubt I could do it today though as it's like anything else....practice, practice, practice
 

DVDdoug

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
400
Likes
481
Trained listener: See Amir Majidimehr. :D :D :D He's one of the few "experts" I trust because I know he's trained himself with careful blind listening tests. He knows where his limits are so he's not fooling himself and he's not trying to fool anyone else.

There "are ear" training courses. (A quick-search mostly turns-up results for musicians, but there are courses for audio engineering too.)

I've always been a "picky listener" and being pickier than the average person can lead you to think your hearing is better. But some blind listening test can be humbling! And now I'm older and I have some high-frequency loss. I never could hear the stuff "audiophiles" were talking about (and most of the time they use meaningless words so you never know what they're talking about) so I never considered myself to have "golden ears".

 

Saidera

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
307
Likes
200
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
That video is just incredibly good!

It has sparked an interest in me to go and learn more about the underlying science of various terms used to describe sound and to try out various ABX tests if they are available. I am not sure whether some mastering engineers also have some experience in rigorous scientific and engineering based training.

In any case, the only time I was motivated to 'hear' differences was when I extensively tested DSEE HX (& HX AI) by listening to it on and off, on various sources, some of which revealed differences more apparently. I also recorded the output and narrowed the file down to a single second to compare On and Off in some cases. But to test laypersons with ABX seems futile now, after watching this video.

So there is one extreme which is like me, having tested for couple of years and claiming things about DSEE (or cables) but without a sound background in codecs or audio concepts and science; being unable to explain and justify the claims. Then there's the other extreme which denies all of this and considers all compression to be sufficiently transparent and ABX is a waste of time. Now I see the proper way is to use knowledge and mere seconds of memory to compare and pass these tests.
 
Last edited:

Loathecliff

Active Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
141
Likes
133
Linn's robotic thugs installers were programmed to tap their listening feet only if the victim customer had bought an all-Linn system, allegedly.
 

Mynice

Member
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
13
Likes
4
Vision-challenged persons are famous for their acute sense of hearing, their ability to pick up sound queues from their environment, and picking up the meaning of faint sounds that normal-vision people ignore.

Yet when the hearing of vision-challenged persons is tested, it is no better on average than normally sighted people.

That's the difference between hearing and the ability to listen.
 

Andysu

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
527
Likes
285
I thought that was just a trained consumer....
I like to consume a cucumber sandwich. :p
Trained listener at end of the day is still training to be a listener. Oh who_O:rolleyes: I give a. Please pay no attention I think it is the climate weather today, it can play tricks on the human condition along with, HARPP radio signals 1 million kilowatts. I'm in a disgruntled mood today.
 

Andysu

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
527
Likes
285
What happens when a 'trained listener' gets older?
No. Nah. You don't say. What happens when a kiddie who goes to night clubs most nights of the week and has a lousy 50kw car hi-fi boom sub bass. He losses his hearing range. So don't say older.
 

BinkieHuckerback

Active Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
267
Likes
297
No. Nah. You don't say. What happens when a kiddie who goes to night clubs most nights of the week and has a lousy 50kw car hi-fi boom sub bass. He losses his hearing range. So don't say older.
That's the point. Can 'trained listening' compensate for changes? At what 'age' is 'trained listening' optimum?
 

Andysu

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
527
Likes
285
That's the point. Can 'trained listening' compensate for changes? At what 'age' is 'trained listening' optimum?
End of the day I still have tinnitus hissing noise between or peak sounds like narrow band pink noise at 6Khz or 7 8KHz, hard to get a mic inside to see what the frequency is now. So Trained listener I am cos I can interrupt, or think for myself. Huh, sounds like filtered pink noise. Today its been good not sure if it is to do with the climate weather today or my diet in last few days or the orange juice that I been drinking since late 70's early 80's since I got tinnitus at age 11, April 1979, fing 'Battlestar Galactica' of Sensurround at unhealthy 120dB for 120mins that was more intense than 'Earthquake' Feb '75 few years before that I saw 4 times, 70mm six-track Sensurround and never had issue till 1979. But my listening and memory for sound is far better than most on this site.
 

BinkieHuckerback

Active Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
267
Likes
297
End of the day I still have tinnitus hissing noise between or peak sounds like narrow band pink noise at 6Khz or 7 8KHz, hard to get a mic inside to see what the frequency is now. So Trained listener I am cos I can interrupt, or think for myself. Huh, sounds like filtered pink noise. Today its been good not sure if it is to do with the climate weather today or my diet in last few days or the orange juice that I been drinking since late 70's early 80's since I got tinnitus at age 11, April 1979, fing 'Battlestar Galactica' of Sensurround at unhealthy 120dB for 120mins that was more intense than 'Earthquake' Feb '75 few years before that I saw 4 times, 70mm six-track Sensurround and never had issue till 1979. But my listening and memory for sound is far better than most on this site.
...one of us is crazy and it's not me...
 

Mynice

Member
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
13
Likes
4
What happens when a 'trained listener' gets older?

Listening ability counts for more than hearing, and so does experience. So your hearing can deteriorate but your listening skills will compensate, if you are trained and experienced at listening. That's why you see great conductors still leading orchestras into their 70's and 80's for example. They are likely not hearing as well as they did in their youth, but they sure as heck know exactly what to listen for!

But it's a compromise for sure, at some point when you have lost certain hearing abilities you just won't be as good a listener either.

Just like every other skill, I suppose. You can lose raw ability but make it up with skill and experience, up to a point. Phil Mickelson just won the Masters at age 50. Is he as good an athlete as he was when he was 25? I doubt it. But golf isn't just about physical skills, it's a mind game as well. So is listening.
 
Top Bottom