What headphone(s) do you own ?

[Westsounds]

Except for me they obviously can't do low end bass as convincingly as closed back dynamics or open backed planars, and I'm talking whilst EQ'ing out the different frequency responses of course. It's a pity, but for me it's really obvious re the bass. I do like the HD800 though but EQ can't save the bass 100%.

I do understand what you are saying, and I did think it was one of the 800’s weaknesses at one point. I have however tried a multitude of amps and DAC combos on them and there are some dramatic changes that can be had. I even think they are the reference for bass if you drive them with the right amps, and certainly as good as any closed backs I’ve ever played with. But closed back just do it out of the box better don’t they, even the likes of lower end headphones such as Audio Technica ATH-M50X seemingly have better bass. But play around with amps and I just don’t think they can be touched, they can slam and seriously hit hard, they just need a lot more playing with. Those drivers in the 800’s are like nothing else. I have heard the planars are good as well, but I’m not sure if I’d get on with the comfort, I find the 800 not the best either because they just big. But generally the Hifimans seem to be worse in that respect, from what I can gather. And whatever I’d listen to now, I think I just be hankering after the 800s again. Phenomenal things they are.

 

[Robbo99999]

I do understand what you are saying, and I did think it was one of the 800’s weaknesses at one point. I have however tried a multitude of amps and DAC combos on them and there are some dramatic changes that can be had. I even think they are the reference for bass if you drive them with the right amps, and certainly as good as any closed backs I’ve ever played with. But closed back just do it out of the box better don’t they, even the likes of lower end headphones such as Audio Technica ATH-M50X seemingly have better bass. But play around with amps and I just don’t think they can be touched, they can slam and seriously hit hard, they just need a lot more playing with. Those drivers in the 800’s are like nothing else. I have heard the planars are good as well, but I’m not sure if I’d get on with the comfort, I find the 800 not the best either because they just big. But generally the Hifimans seem to be worse in that respect, from what I can gather. And whatever I’d listen to now, I think I just be hankering after the 800s again. Phenomenal things they are.

I don't think amps are a factor, just get one that measures well here on ASR. Everything else is frequency response & distortion, so EQ them to the best sound. For me I can't get real convincing bass out of the HD800 in comparison to closed back dynamics and open backed planars (and even some other open back dynamic headphones).

 

[Westsounds]

I don't think amps are a factor, just get one that measures well here on ASR. Everything else is frequency response & distortion, so EQ them to the best sound. For me I can't get real convincing bass out of the HD800 in comparison to closed back dynamics and open backed planars (and even some other open back dynamic headphones).

No maybe not, as you say any sufficient amp is good enough, and then it comes down to EQ. Well as long as the amp has enough drive for them then, I guess I must be EQ’ing them to a pleasurable result that I never question the bass any more. And to me, they have some of the best bass I’ve ever experienced in any headphone or reproduced by any speaker, to my ear. They never fail to impress me listening to music, without EQ though and without the sufficient drive, they're nothing extraordinary. With though, I don’t feel there is anything that’s technically better at delivering a performance right to your ears.

And as you say, the distortion of whatever amps I’ve used is possibly a factor, as adding distortion is ‘sometimes’ a pleasurable experience.

 

[Westsounds]

Out of interest is there a headphone amplifier power chart here on ASR that shows power for reviewed amplifiers someone can point me to please?

 

[Selkirks]

Downsized to 3 models, nothing crazy.

Hifiman Edition XS
MP143 Salt
Soundpeats H3

 

[Robbo99999]

No maybe not, as you say any sufficient amp is good enough, and then it comes down to EQ. Well as long as the amp has enough drive for them then, I guess I must be EQ’ing them to a pleasurable result that I never question the bass any more. And to me, they have some of the best bass I’ve ever experienced in any headphone or reproduced by any speaker, to my ear. They never fail to impress me listening to music, without EQ though and without the sufficient drive, they're nothing extraordinary. With though, I don’t feel there is anything that’s technically better at delivering a performance right to your ears.

And as you say, the distortion of whatever amps I’ve used is possibly a factor, as adding distortion is ‘sometimes’ a pleasurable experience.

When I mentioned "distortion" I was referring to the headphone, not the amp. The amp should be "invisible" in the audio chain, not adding anything & not taking away anything - the good measuring amps measured here on ASR by Amir are such amps.

 

[Ambient384]

Etymotic ER4SR - with 6db Low shelf at 105Hz & some tweaks to mids/treble.

Etymotic ER3SE - Pretty much a fall back, Still looking for a 23 ohm 3.5mm plug for It to turn It into a ER4SR.

 

[Westsounds]

When I mentioned "distortion" I was referring to the headphone, not the amp. The amp should be "invisible" in the audio chain, not adding anything & not taking away anything - the good measuring amps measured here on ASR by Amir are such amps.

Tube amps add harmonic distortion.

 

[Robbo99999]

Tube amps add harmonic distortion.

Yeah, sometimes they do, but what's the point in that, I mean that's a rhetorical question, not one you have to answer. Amp doesn't matter as long as it's a good measuring one here on ASR. Anyway, this thread is not about amps so we shouldn't be rehashing the same points over & over about it.

 

[Sebby]

When I mentioned "distortion" I was referring to the headphone, not the amp. The amp should be "invisible" in the audio chain, not adding anything & not taking away anything - the good measuring amps measured here on ASR by Amir are such amps.

Amplifiers make no difference as long as they can drive the headphones and are sufficiently clean, and unfortunately not enough data is published.
In my opinion, measurements of pre-ring and post-ring are missing (yes, they are subjectively audible), as well as the available power at different impedances.

The Sennheiser HD660s2 have a measured 330 ohms at 1 kHz and on ASR the test is done at 300 ohms, which might be fine, but if you look at the impedance curve you can see that at around 120 Hz the impedance rises to almost 900 ohms.
So an amplifier that doesn’t have enough power (at least 100 mW) at 900 ohms won’t be able to drive those headphones to their full potential. Once you have that data, yes, the rest of the differences are negligible.

 

[redwingnine]

Own the following:

1. Ultrasone Edition 15 Veritas
2. Ultrasone Edition 8 EX
3. Verum 2
4. Sennheiser HD 600
5. Sennheiser HD 650
6. Sennheiser HD 660S2
7. Sennheiser HD 490 Pro

 

[Rayman30]

Updated for 12/25:

Audeze LCD-X (2021)
Apple Airpods Pro 2nd gen
Apple Airpods Max 1st Gen
Crinnacle Truthear Zero2
Crinnacle Truthear Zero Red
Dan Clark Aeon Noire X
Moondrop Chu
Sennheiser HD497
Sennheiser HD650
Sennheiser PX100ii
HiFiMan Arya Stealth

 

[solderdude]

Amplifiers make no difference as long as they can drive the headphones and are sufficiently clean, and unfortunately not enough data is published.
In my opinion, measurements of pre-ring and post-ring are missing (yes, they are subjectively audible),

Headphones don't have pre-ringing but of course have post ringing (like every driver will).
CSD for instance can show this just like square-waves, step and impulse plots.
The audibility of this depends on the actual decay of the reproduced instrument and the frequency it occurs at.
The HD660S2 is very good at this b.t.w.

as well as the available power at different impedances.

The Sennheiser HD660s2 have a measured 330 ohms at 1 kHz and on ASR the test is done at 300 ohms, which might be fine, but if you look at the impedance curve you can see that at around 120 Hz the impedance rises to almost 900 ohms.
So an amplifier that doesn’t have enough power (at least 100 mW) at 900 ohms won’t be able to drive those headphones to their full potential. Once you have that data, yes, the rest of the differences are negligible.

An amplifier will still provide the same voltage in 300 ohm as in 900 ohm so is perfectly able to drive it.
A headphone is a voltage driven device !!
In fact the amplifier even has to provide less current in 900 ohm so has it even easier.

An increasing impedance is ONLY an issue when driven from a relatively high output resistance.
And as can be seen, due to the high impedance of the headphone even a 120ohm output resistance does not matter much.

It is not recommended to drive it from the headphone outs of integrated amps or (AV)receivers as some of those can even be 500ohm out.

 

[Sebby]

Headphones don't have pre-ringing but of course have post ringing (like every driver will).
CSD for instance can show this just like square-waves, step and impulse plots.
The audibility of this depends on the actual decay of the reproduced instrument and the frequency it occurs at.
The HD660S2 is very good at this b.t.w.

An amplifier will still provide the same voltage in 300 ohm as in 900 ohm so is perfectly able to drive it.
A headphone is a voltage driven device !!
In fact the amplifier even has to provide less current in 900 ohm so has it even easier.

An increasing impedance is ONLY an issue when driven from a relatively high output resistance.
And as can be seen, due to the high impedance of the headphone even a 120ohm output resistance does not matter much.

It is not recommended to drive it from the headphone outs of integrated amps or (AV)receivers as some of those can even be 500ohm out.

Headphones don't have pre-ringing but of course have post ringing (like every driver will).
CSD for instance can show this just like square-waves, step and impulse plots.
The audibility of this depends on the actual decay of the reproduced instrument and the frequency it occurs at.
The HD660S2 is very good at this b.t.w.

An amplifier will still provide the same voltage in 300 ohm as in 900 ohm so is perfectly able to drive it.
A headphone is a voltage driven device !!
In fact the amplifier even has to provide less current in 900 ohm so has it even easier.

An increasing impedance is ONLY an issue when driven from a relatively high output resistance.
And as can be seen, due to the high impedance of the headphone even a 120ohm output resistance does not matter much.

It is not recommended to drive it from the headphone outs of integrated amps or (AV)receivers as some of those can even be 500ohm out.

My fault, I probably explained myself poorly.

When I was talking about pre-ringing and post-ringing I wasn’t referring to the headphones, but to the amplifier (here too I explained it badly, since I was referring to DAC+AMP stacks and therefore to the DAC filters).
I know how the HD660S2 behaves because before buying it I had looked at your measurements, and I often take inspiration from your page because I love how deep and precise you go. After just a few hours of listening it became one of my favorite headphones.

As for the power it should need, I used the Headphone.com calculator, which showed that at 900 ohms the required voltage, at the same volume, increases a lot, about 70% more compared to 300 ohms at 1000 Hz (330 ohms measured by you)

 

[solderdude]

When I was talking about pre-ringing and post-ringing I wasn’t referring to the headphones, but to the amplifier

Amplifiers also do not have pre-ringing NOR post-ringing.
Well... class D designs do but not in any audible way and well above the audible range.

Only DAC's show 'ringing' what is caused by the Gibbs effect (bandwidth limiting) and usually is well above the audible range and thus also not audible.

As for the power it should need, I used the Headphone.com calculator, which showed that at 900 ohms the required voltage, at the same volume, increases a lot, about 70% more compared to 300 ohms at 1000 Hz (330 ohms measured by you)

Best to only look at the sensitivity numbers (dB/V) if you want to know how loud one can play and what amp power is needed.

When using the headphones.com calculator only fill in the nominal impedance value and (for HD660S2) 105dB/V as sensitivity and 120dB as target.
Of course when you fill in the right dB/mW number (100dB/mW for HD660S2) you will get the same numbers.
You will get:

Voltage (V) 5.62

Current (mA) 18.74

Power (mW) 105.41

Equiv. dB/mW 99.77

So 100mW in 300 ohm spec'd amp will be all that is needed regardless of how high the impedance may become.

 

[Darkatomz]

I started out on a pair of Audio Technica AD-700's back in the day before upgrading to the AKG Q701 and eventually to HiFiman HE560 and Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire.

These days, I have an open and a closed pair that I like to switch between: Focal Clear and Dan Clark Audio Noire X.

 

[Egbert]

My preference is for the Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire. I use this in combination with my RME Dac Adi-2 fs. Enjoy the Dan Clark every day. It is important to use a powerful headphone amplifier. The Dan Clark passes on more details than me Dynaudio Contour 60.

 

[FTB]

Updated for 12/25:

Audeze LCD-X (2021)
Apple Airpods Pro 2nd gen
Apple Airpods Max 1st Gen
Crinnacle Truthear Zero2
Crinnacle Truthear Zero Red
Dan Clark Aeon Noire X
Moondrop Chu
Sennheiser HD497
Sennheiser HD650
Sennheiser PX100ii
HiFiMan Arya Stealth

Good old Senn PX100ii !
For years I have been happy with these headphones before opening Pandora box and becoming a bit more materialistic man with more high-end headphones. Their frequency response width is ridiculous but they still sound warm and pleasant.
A shame they don't sell them anymore, it was a great buy for people wanting to spend 30 or 40 €.

 

[Robbo99999]

Good old Senn PX100ii !
For years I have been happy with these headphones before opening Pandora box and becoming a bit more materialistic man with more high-end headphones. Their frequency response width is ridiculous but they still sound warm and pleasant.
A shame they don't sell them anymore, it was a great buy for people wanting to spend 30 or 40 €.

I used these for gaming & music listening from like 2009 - 2015! I did enjoy them at the time though but I had zero references to proven good sound!

 

[AndyBell]

Sennheiser HD560s
Etymotic ER2XR
Koss KPH40
Bose Quiet Comfort (more for noise cancelling when at work but they sound ok)