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What Happened to Hi Fi?

Sal1950

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not sure how it is in the u.s but here hifi was a hobby that guys indulged in, the fixed up and made there own amps etc tbh my dads generation fixed up their own cars too. Everything got stripped down, it was part of ownership.

Guys still do that here but they are all well over 50... There is no, let's strip our phones iPads etc well not on the same scale anyhow.

I think money being earnt and spent more equally between the sexes plays a part too, woman have very diffrent criteria in this regard.
Exactly the same here.
There's also the factor of so much now is a disposable society + people are no longer near as frugal as they used to be. My fathers gen were the Great Depression and WW II people. My dad only had 1 credit card in his life (Sears Revolving) but would NEVER consider using it to "finance" something, it was simply a convenience and the full account was paid off every month. "If I can't pay cash I don't need it" he'd say. Only thing ever financed was their house and car.
I did thankfully inherit a bit of his ways, I haven't carried a balance on my 2 cards in over 20 years, screw those interest rates. LOL But the big recession/depression of 2006-12 or so revealed on the news, etc; how deeply the boomer and next generations were in depth and had considered that normal. So many were in the position that if their income stopped for even a short period of time their lifes were falling in like a house of cards. The average middle class person was shown to be carrying $50-70K on cards and the home they had been in for 15 years had been remortgaged twice draining any equity they had built out of it, many times for frivolous things like fancy vacations and expensive cars beyond their financial place. Never anything at all like a bank/savings account, living week to week with zero buffer. A couple months off work and the bank was at the door since now property values had fallen by 30-40% and they found themselves upside down on the mortgage by the same factor. :eek: My girlfriend of the time was exactly there, she got laid off and within 6 months had to file bankruptcy and just walk away from a lovey home she'd been in over 10 years, a single mom with two kids out on the street with nothing. Had to move in with elderly parents to get by. SAD
 

Sal1950

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Not really...it just moved to other areas. Home robotics, 3D printing, etc.

You should go to a Maker Faire sometime.
Maybe, I'm not familiar with any of the stuff you mentioned. But a guy or kid with no skill or knowledge to speak of could go out and buy Dyna, Heath, etc kits, follow the step by step instructions and end up with a working product. I was about 9 or 10 when I soldered my first Knightkit short wave radio together.
 

Burning Sounds

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Here's a story you might find interesting.

Went over to a friend's house for dinner over the weekend - he's the main engineer behind the Tornado steam train - - he has some 30 year old DIY Tannoy's, just had his beloved Quad 303's rebuilt, Garrad 301 (never uses it) and primarily streams classical music or uses CDs. Two of his late 20s/early 30s sons (one is a computer games developer) were home also and had several of their friends around. I've been to his house in the past when his sons and their friends were home and each had powerful laptops setup playing computer games - room was like an oven. Big nerdy kids, but very sociable.

Late in the evening (after our wives had enough to drink and didn't care anymore) we started playing some music through the tannoys and one son (the computer game developer) came in to listen. I asked him about his music interests - he also plays fiddle in a folk band - he doesn't own any music - all streamed to a laptop or phone (Spotify) - not interested in owning any music - takes up too much space - and didn't seemed alarmed when I asked what he would do if the streaming services went bust - he hadn't really thought about it. I asked him what computer games they were playing - they weren't, that was last year - they now get together to play board games....
 
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watchnerd

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So in summary:

Hi-fi started off as a nerdy hobby out of necessity for anyone who wanted good sound.

For a decade or two in the 1970s-1980s, it became a status symbol for men to spend money on, like having a nice car.

For a brief period home theater took off, became the new status symbol, people still gathered in the living room for shared entertainment.

Post smartphone and tablet, entertainment is individualized, the need for everyone to listen / watch together in the big shrine is gone.
 

Sal1950

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For a decade or two in the 1970s-1980s, it became a status symbol for men to spend money on, like having a nice car
I don't think that's quite accurate. The boomer generation was very into music when young, everyone wanted a good stereo to listen to all the artists of the day. Much more than a status symbol. Later as work, wife, kids, etc; came around the involvement in the music of the day faded as did the opportunity to listen to any music, new or old. By the time that old HiFi broke down they just didn't care anymore. Just a few of us passionate music lovers are left now with the big rigs at home.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

Very interesting topic and one I can chime in... A few things:
1) We may need to dial back the cynicism and nostalgia:
Listening to music seems to be a very human activity/need. Everywhere on earth people make and/or listen to music. At every level of civilization or societal stratum there is music. Reproducing it thus become an interesting idea. One can at one's leisure listen. Some people have been keen to notice there was (still is) a vast difference between the reproduction and the "real" thus Hi-Fi was born.
Some of us became fixated with the idea on ever closer fidelity to "real" however unclear "real" is...
In the 70s we found out that pushing some things to the extreme resulted in better fidelity. Better power supplies, better components, better transducers, thus High End was born... And as any hobby , voodoo did ensue
Then some people noted that many came to make of High End Audio something totally disconnected from the Science of Audio...
In the meantime, middle class people started spending rather large sums on things that heretofore was reserved to the wealthy.. Thus the rise of $500 Jeans, $3000 handbags, $250 tee-shirt !!!
High End Audio Industry noticed .. There were people with some discretionary income and who made of music reproduction a religion. Accepting nonsense like the Gospel... here are crazy ideas that they take with a straight face and abide to it (Anyone who think that a silver Ethernet cable is worth $900 is waiting for a lane of the Brooklyn Bridge or the Golden Gate to buy ...) or think that Quantum tunnelling is used to make their system sound better. Back in the 80's someone actually claimed he had found a way to "program" electrons to behave a certain way... And made a clock which close to the system would result in better sound and we know a few were sold ... So why not raise prices from time and observe the reaction: So we went from $100K speakers as the nec plus Ultra to $250K representing almost middle of the road ... Magico Q3 around $50K . a few years later the M3 which has to be better simply because it is newer is of course $75,000 sans the mandatory, yet optional M-Pod for an additional $15,000 or so dollars and you see people on forum defending the cost of those things ... Of course this speakers is only the M3, there will be a M5 and a M7... and a new ultiMate... the M-version of the Ultimate at perhaps $956.000. Why 956 and not a round, cool million? You see, you don't break that ceiling just yet.. Wait for a lesser manufacturer with less to lose then you can follow suit. Better suggest that the system to play it is going to be way over that ;) With the close to $100K speaker cable the circa 50K IC and the circa $20K Power Cord...

The darn thing is that inherent to the nature of the hobbyist she/he tends to think in term of and seek for, the next best thing, even among those who should know better .. so you can tell what would befall the non-scientific person with available funds .. because at the end no one gets any poorer for buying a $50K TT arm .. So the flight to even higher prices goes on and many take their sight off real performance and focus on bling, price and the comfort of an elevated sticker price ...
I could continue .. Time to stop :)
 
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watchnerd

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Hi

;) With the close to $100K speaker cable the circa 50K IC and the circa $20K Power Cord...

The darn thing is that inherent to the nature of the hobbyist she/he tends to think in term of and seek for, the next best thing, even among those who should know better .. so you can tell what would befall the non-scientific person with available funds .. because at the end not one gets any poorer for buying a $50K arm .. So the flight to even higher prices goes on and many take their sight of real performance and start focusing on bling and price and the comfort of a elevated sticker price ...
I could continue .. Time to stop :)

LOL...I thought you were going to dial back the cynicism? ;)
 

Cosmik

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In the 70s we found out that pushing some things to the extreme resulted in better fidelity. Better power supplies, better components, better transducers
Call me a cynic, but I think that pushing those things to the extreme resulted in better perceived (or imagined) fidelity for the susceptible. The real gains were made from the most intelligent use of technology, not the most extreme technology.
 

Sal1950

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I could continue .. Time to stop
That's fine, I think you've said it all in a most honest and direct way.
10 LP's and 10 SET's for that one. ^ ;)
 

RogerD

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What happened to Hi Fi? Same thing as every other man hobby.....inflation created a cost spiral and the information age coupled with Asia coming of age put everything out of reach of most people. Glad I purchased stuff in the 1970's,80's.90's and 2000 while I still worked. Yes the only bargain seems to be digital. I'm a firm believer that if it sounded good when I purchased it....why wouldn't it now....to hell with this high end merry go round.
 

RayDunzl

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or think that Quantum tunnelling is used to make their system sound better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling

Well, Quantum Tunnelling would seem to be a valid topic at some level of audio engineering, given the complex nature of our modern devices...

I would be in general agreement with your post... The current iteration of my roughly equivalent speaker ($4500 - 1998) has moved up to an MSRP of $25,000. That's more than inflation which would put it around $6663.

It does have some improvements and differences, but $18,337 worth? No Sale...

It currently comes in 3 sizes - two inches width difference each - $10,000, $15,000, and $25000. I have wonder why the second two inches in width is so much pricier than the first two.
 

FrantzM

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling

Well, Quantum Tunnelling would seem to be a valid topic at some level of audio engineering, given the complex nature of our modern devices...

I would be in general agreement with your post... The current iteration of my roughly equivalent speaker ($4500 - 1998) has moved up to an MSRP of $25,000. That's more than inflation which would put it around $6663.

It does have some improvements and differences, but $18,337 worth? No Sale...

It currently comes in 3 sizes - two inches width difference each - $10,000, $15,000, and $25000. I have wonder why the second two inches in width is so much pricier than the first two.
Point taken about Quantum Tunneling ... You have to admit home that it is a stretch to say that some fuses and power conditioner use it in their "working".. Truth to be told if we were to think about everyday phenomenon... some of them are very hard to explain and may invoke quantum tunneling or even more complicated stuffs .. The shining of the sun for one ... A vulgar Transistor works under physical phenomena that are very hard or sometime impossible to explain. . There is no Quantum Tunneling involved in Synergistic cable or the Black Body or ... but the audiophile hears just the name and assigns a sound to it...
 

fas42

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Hi

Very interesting topic and one I can chime in... A few things:
1) We may need to dial back the cynicism and nostalgia:
Listening to music seems to be a very human activity/need. Everywhere on earth people make and/or listen to music. At every level of civilization or societal stratum there is music. Reproducing it thus become an interesting idea. One can at one's leisure listen. Some people have been keen to notice there was (still is) a vast difference between the reproduction and the "real" thus Hi-Fi was born.
Yes. And where Hi Fi still falls down, usually, is that it's not satisfying to listen to. Women are notoriously able to pick this - all the aspects that their menfolk are jumping up and down in excitement about leave them unmoved, and they politely leave the room as soon as they can - "it's just not nice to listen to", they might say.

When a system can run at elevated levels, and be good to listen to right next to the speakers, and then also at the far end of the house - then it's on the right track. And Hi Fi probably won't get back to being taken seriously again, by the general population, until that happens ...
 

RogerD

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Yes. And where Hi Fi still falls down, usually, is that it's not satisfying to listen to. Women are notoriously able to pick this - all the aspects that their menfolk are jumping up and down in excitement about leave them unmoved, and they politely leave the room as soon as they can - "it's just not nice to listen to", they might say.

When a system can run at elevated levels, and be good to listen to right next to the speakers, and then also at the far end of the house - then it's on the right track. And Hi Fi probably won't get back to being taken seriously again, by the general population, until that happens ...
Frank....though women love the cinema and the musical soundtrack intensifies the emotional connection. Women might not like hi fi but that's probably a control or home interior design thing. Women are just more practical about spending money....just like most guys say....I hope she never finds out how much I have spent....ymmv

Though I agree with your sound assessment.....
 

fas42

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Roger, my better half is very good this way - those Technics speakers we have came from her, acquired before I met her. Quite often, she's the one prodding me to do somethin' about it - improve the sound! She gets huge delight out of winding the volume knob up as high as she can make it go - the energy hit of music working well gives her a big thrill!
 

Sal1950

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watchnerd

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the information age coupled with Asia coming of age put everything out of reach of most people.

Out of reach?

I would have said "in reach". The information age has made lossless recordings widely available to anyone who feels like spending the price of two movie tickets each month...a far better ROI than buying LPs, either now or back in the day (and I say this as someone who likes vinyl).

As for Asia coming of age, the economies of scale are what allow us to have computers and smart phones with 20 ps of jitter...something that 15 years ago cost thousands and perhaps an external word clock.

The information age has made more quality sound available to more people, more cheaply and more conveniently, than at any other time in history.

The tragedy? Most don't care.
 
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