• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

What happened here?

Rip City Dave

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
178
Likes
276
Location
Portland, OR
Something happened to cause me to lose two Panamax MAX 4310 units and an Adcom ACE-515 all at once.

We had a snow storm here in Portland a few weeks ago. During the storm, I was listening to my audio system upstairs and my wife was watching TV downstairs. The lights flickered, power went off, then came back on immediately.

The Panamax in my audio system displayed the over voltage LED and it bricked.

Downstairs, the Panamax and the Adcom units for the TV and A/V components (all separates) bricked.

What happened here?

Keep in mind that I have an Eaton CHSP ULTRA whole-house surge protector installed at the panel, which appears to be still functioning normally. No other electrical components in my hose were affected. Was this an internal surge from an appliance or HVAC?

And don't flame me for using power conditioners. I think power conditioning is BS. I use them for surge protection and master control of all my separates. LOL
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
You say bricked... as in no lights come on or as in 'stuck in some mode and not working but lights etc. are still on ?

Is the over voltage protection mounted where the mains power comes into the house or somewhere further down ?
The TV cable ground is also a path ?

Maybe fuses in the units tripped because of a large surge.
Could be 600V even when clamped where the voltage enters the house. Maybe there are parts in the devices that don't like 600V surges ?
 
OP
R

Rip City Dave

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
178
Likes
276
Location
Portland, OR
You say bricked... as in no lights come on or as in 'stuck in some mode and not working but lights etc. are still on ?

Is the over voltage protection mounted where the mains power comes into the house or somewhere further down ?
The TV cable ground is also a path ?

Maybe fuses in the units tripped because of a large surge.
Could be 600V even when clamped where the voltage enters the house. Maybe there are parts in the devices that don't like 600V surges ?

The whole- house surge suppressor is mounted at the panel where the mains enter. Breakers on the Panamax units did not trip. Fuses in the Adcom unit did not burn out. All units are dead, completely dead. If I plug the Panamax units into my kitchen outlets, it trips the GFCI, FWIW.
 

SimpleTheater

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
927
Likes
1,789
Location
Woodstock, NY
And don't flame me for using power conditioners. I think power conditioning is BS. I use them for surge protection and master control of all my separates. LOL
A neighbor of mine had a Panamax and his Marantz AV receiver plugged into it. A power surge destroyed his Marantz. He contacted Panamax and was told he'd have to get a certified electrician or someone who was certified from the town to do a write up specifying that the Panamax was at fault. He brought in a certified electrician who told him that it would be nearly impossible to specifically point to the Panamax because he can't be 100% sure the Marantz was connected to it when it got fried. He also said, if there was a serious issue, like a lightning surge, nothing in these consumer units is going to be able to stop it.

All in all, the idea that these companies (APC/Panamax/etc) are going to pay out up to $250,000 for connected equipment is a joke.

Edit: And I'll add, I don't think they do much for surge protection either.
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
The whole- house surge suppressor is mounted at the panel where the mains enter. Breakers on the Panamax units did not trip. Fuses in the Adcom unit did not burn out. All units are dead, completely dead. If I plug the Panamax units into my kitchen outlets, it trips the GFCI, FWIW.

Looks like over voltage killed those units.

Could also be that a longer period over voltage killed them. Low enough not to trip the trigger voltage of the surge protection but long and high enough to destroy MOVs (these can only handle very short peaks)
Could explain the GFCI tripping if a surge protector or a capacitor to ground is leaking.
 
Last edited:

devopsprodude

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
332
Likes
324
Location
Beaverton, OR
A neighbor of mine had a Panamax and his Marantz AV receiver plugged into it. A power surge destroyed his Marantz. He contacted Panamax and was told he'd have to get a certified electrician or someone who was certified from the town to do a write up specifying that the Panamax was at fault. He brought in a certified electrician who told him that it would be nearly impossible to specifically point to the Panamax because he can't be 100% sure the Marantz was connected to it when it got fried. He also said, if there was a serious issue, like a lightning surge, nothing in these consumer units is going to be able to stop it.

All in all, the idea that these companies (APC/Panamax/etc) are going to pay out up to $250,000 for connected equipment is a joke.

Edit: And I'll add, I don't think they do much for surge protection either.
Would a UPS offer any protection against a surge?
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
It will probably be fried as well with lightning strikes nearby or severe overvoltage. No OVP protection can prevent that.
Can't predict if it would still fry the stuff behind it.
 
Last edited:

Harmonie

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
1,927
Likes
2,084
Location
France
The basic, would be to have an effective grounding and make sure you measure the leak
 

ZolaIII

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
4,069
Likes
2,409
Hope at least some of you remember old TV voltage stabilisers. They ware noisy, heavy and they worked.
download.jpeg

There are different kinds of those today. Please use Google translate on the page and read.
https://hr.expertexpro.com/18-luchshikh-stabilizatorov-napryazheniya/
That should give you a base to choose a right one for your usage scenario.
 

JeffS7444

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
2,347
Likes
3,508

SimpleTheater

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
927
Likes
1,789
Location
Woodstock, NY

JeffS7444

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
2,347
Likes
3,508
BTW, did the devices which were plugged into those surge protectors survive? If so, then I'd say you got your money's worth. Maybe repairable if you are handy with a soldering iron.
 

SimpleTheater

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
927
Likes
1,789
Location
Woodstock, NY
Specs say that it clamps voltage at around the 600 volt range.
From the link in post #15 “Has a clamping voltage—the amount that triggers the diversion of electricity to the ground—of 400 volts or less. The lower the number, the better the protection
“
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,522
Likes
37,051
All my A/V equipment survived!
So what is the complaint? Sounds like your units saved your gear. Poor form that companies don't stand behind claims to cover equipment, but your sacrificial surge protection did its job. BTW, have you contacted Panamax to see what they have to say? You basically just want them to replace their units right?
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
All my A/V equipment survived!

So they did what they were designed for. Most likely the over voltage wasn't a short surge or spike (which they should survive) but a longer event.
Maybe half a second or even longer.

Also, when certain high power voltage protections 'clamp' at 400V or 600V they may need 1kV or 2kV to be 'triggered' which may be a very short trigger. Maybe the Eaton triggers at 400V but holds at a lower voltage. It should release well above the mains voltage it is designed for.
Most household equipment must be able to survive very short spikes (< ms)
 
Top Bottom