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What exactly is MiniDSP?

Hotwetrat

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I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how this would work for me if at all.

The miniDSP 2x4 HD - I have no real idea exactly wth it is.

My full setup is Source > Topping E30 Optical in > Yamaha A S701 > Dali Opticon 1MK2 and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

I am interested because form what I understand I can manually set a good crossover of my choice using this thing, but tbh I really don't know EXACTLY what the heck it is, how I would connect it OR if it's a good option?

Any info appreciated. I can get the miniDSP 2x4 HD & UMIK-1 Combo for about £250

Cheers!
 

RayDunzl

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OP
Hotwetrat

Hotwetrat

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yep. I know my limits.

I'll just twiddle the knob on my sub until it sounds appropriate

cheers

EDIT - WAIT I think I get it - it's a DAC!??? AKA I would have to totally ditch my Topping E30 and go with a subpar DAC in order to gain DSP/bass management??
 
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RayDunzl

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WAIT I think I get it - it's a DAC!??? AKA I would have to totally ditch my Topping E30 and go with a subpar DAC in order to gain DSP/bass management??

It's a DAC, yes.

Two digital channels in, 4 analog channels out, however you choose to use them.
 

Plcamp

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It’s really a preamp too…with analog input plus opt,coax and usb (which is also used with a pc app to program it). You can store four different dsp profiles and select on the fly. There are 10 full parametric equalizers per input and output, plus FIR filters on outputs. Many built in crossovers as well.

using analog input it adc’s so dsp can be applied, then DACs for each output.

There are digital only versions for use with external DACs.

it’s versatile, that’s for sure, but not at SQ levels of modern DACs.

The SHD dsp product is better DACs and more $.
 

Matias

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Well to begin with, miniDSP is a company, not the products.

2x4 HD is a stereo processor, analog or digital inputs, and 4 RCA line level outputs which you can process digitally inside, like EQ or crossovers etc.

And UMIK-1 is a USB measuring mic.
 

digitalfrost

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EDIT - WAIT I think I get it - it's a DAC!??? AKA I would have to totally ditch my Topping E30 and go with a subpar DAC in order to gain DSP/bass management??
The ones with analog outputs are also DACs yes. You can also get them with digital in/out should you want to run your own DACs.
 

ctakim

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I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how this would work for me if at all.

The miniDSP 2x4 HD - I have no real idea exactly wth it is.

My full setup is Source > Topping E30 Optical in > Yamaha A S701 > Dali Opticon 1MK2 and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

I am interested because form what I understand I can manually set a good crossover of my choice using this thing, but tbh I really don't know EXACTLY what the heck it is, how I would connect it OR if it's a good option?

Any info appreciated. I can get the miniDSP 2x4 HD & UMIK-1 Combo for about £250

Cheers!
I just embarked on this journey and I'm using the MiniDSP 2x4HD and UMIK-1 to blend my subs with my main speakers. Check out this thread I started a short time ago. Of note, the 2x4HD replaced the DAC in my set up with my computer being the music source (Roon/Qobuz).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-and-crossover-adjustments.23419/#post-782331
 

Digital_Thor

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It's a "magical" digital soundbox - that makes it possible to manipulate an analog audio signal in between almost all types of audio components - like a pre-amp and a power amplifier. You input either an analog or digital signal and fiddle with it digitally, until it suits your desires via pc-software - then you get an analog output(now modified) that can be feed to you existing equipment.
Biggest pitfall, is that you'll easily adjust something in the digital domain, that is not really possible or beneficial in the analog domain - meaning that what you see as a wishful solution in the software, might easily not be a valid possibillity in real life. You might see a virtual knob that shows an option to gain 20dB...... but you'll rarely be able to do that in most systems. So - would say that the magic lies in the hands of the one adjusting any type of DSP. Such a powerful tool - when used properly.... but crazy bad results can also very easily be reached.
Takes a bit of practice.... but definitely worth it :)
 
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Hotwetrat

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Thanks a lot for all the replies it's definitely a bit hazy specially if there are more 'versions' etc

I just embarked on this journey and I'm using the MiniDSP 2x4HD and UMIK-1 to blend my subs with my main speakers. Check out this thread I started a short time ago. Of note, the 2x4HD replaced the DAC in my set up with my computer being the music source (Roon/Qobuz).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-and-crossover-adjustments.23419/#post-782331

Yes that's exactly why I started looking at this mystery box! But it seems it does a great deal more, replaces the DAC I like and requires a lot of strange setup via software! Is this software free I wonder, what hidden costs will pop up after I purchase this thing lol, I will take a look at your thread, cheers!

I am wondering if this will also give me room correction? As in, I can measure with the MIC and REW? And then use the 2x4HD to EQ accordingly? I have EQ on my subs, this is all very deep (until you get to know things then it all seems so easy and obvious)
 

ctakim

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Thanks a lot for all the replies it's definitely a bit hazy specially if there are more 'versions' etc



Yes that's exactly why I started looking at this mystery box! But it seems it does a great deal more, replaces the DAC I like and requires a lot of strange setup via software! Is this software free I wonder, what hidden costs will pop up after I purchase this thing lol, I will take a look at your thread, cheers!

I am wondering if this will also give me room correction? As in, I can measure with the MIC and REW? And then use the 2x4HD to EQ accordingly? I have EQ on my subs, this is all very deep (until you get to know things then it all seems so easy and obvious)
Yes, you absolutely can use this to do room correction and sub-main integration as well. That is what I am currently doing right now. It is a steep learning curve but I'm taking it one step at a time!
 

Lorenzo74

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yep. AKA I would have to totally ditch my Topping E30 and go with a subpar DAC in order to gain DSP/bass management??
Trust me. In a blind test you will not distinguish E30 from minidsp pure DAC. Then when you will Cross the Sub in digital domain with steep 48dB octave adding Diraclive correction you will realize that ddrc24 is a great product.
Then if you live in a treated room, have 1k$ spare and have “proven teens” ear capability you can trade it for the SHD version.
try it, you will be happy.
best
L.
 
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Hotwetrat

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Thanks a lot guys, definitely a consideration
 

knownunknown

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hijacking this thread.

so with this little thingy i can correct the sound from badly positioned speakers in an untreated room (is that room correction)? Sorry, i‘m a dummy.
 

ctakim

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hijacking this thread.

so with this little thingy i can correct the sound from badly positioned speakers in an untreated room (is that room correction)? Sorry, i‘m a dummy.
Well, you can improve your speaker's frequency response but it cannot work miracles. Room treatments and proper positioning are still important and cannot be fully compensated for by the miniDSP parametric equalization capabilities. But using all three can get you to the best possible performance of your sound system.
 

Digital_Thor

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hijacking this thread.

so with this little thingy i can correct the sound from badly positioned speakers in an untreated room (is that room correction)? Sorry, i‘m a dummy.
To put it very simple. If we for the sake of argument, forget that speaker drivers can have more than just linear distortion. Then a speaker driver can only move in and out - 2 way - 2 dimensions.
This means that an equalizer - both analog or digital - like the miniDSP, has the potential to adjust the level of this - in and out motion - at all frequencies, until you get an equal amount of energy from - let's say - a mid/woofer like the SB17 driver. Of course there are limits, the driver will never be able to play deeper or higher in frequency, then what it is designed to do, but within it's workable pass band, we can smooth it out and get a better and more neutral response.
Then follows two problems.
Firstly, there are limits to how much and with which filters you adjust the levels with any DSP or equalizer. EQ simply moves the phase too, which means that you move some frequencies in time - more than others. Luckily within certain limits, we simply can't hear this, but it all adds up, so again we have to work smart with these tools.
Secondly, as soon as the sound leaves a speaker driver - all comes into play. Flush mounting the driver, edges on the cabinet, the shape of the cabinet, all surfaces around the speaker and the distance to each and every one of them too.
This is very important. Because everything that comes out of a speaker, plays in many directions - but the speaker driver can still only move in and out.
All the soundwaves that emit from a speaker, will at some point hit a wall, floor or something else. As a wave expands through the air, it will hit many objects and each time reflect in new different directions and at new smaller levels. But in the end - everything gets mixed up. So if you measure the speaker with the room in one exact place in the room - you will get one exact and unique response, because of all the countless reflections of that specific room, with that specific placement of your speaker and that specific placement of the microphone.
This means that the original change that you made in the DSP/EQ, can only be true/correct - at that one spot in your room - not even the same for each of your ears - even if you sit at the exact same spot every time.
Also timing comes into play, because we as humans, has a limit to how easy we can separate sound in time - which also change with frequency. This is why dampening our rooms a bit, really helps with sound quality, from any speaker. Very roughly speaking - any sound reflection that arrives to our ears before around 20ms - smears the sound. And if they are delayed more than around 20ms - it adds "room" or spaciousness. Again - this a rule of thumb. It is a bit more complicated when going into detail :)
This is why we measure off-axis. Because if we can build a speaker, so that it sounds the same in all directions, then all the reflections will be much closer to the original sound and therefore not ruin the sound image - even if we move our head around during a heated moment of our favorite music.
To make it the most precise and neutral sounding speakers, that does not intervene or adds its own "sound flavor" to the music. We simply have to ask ourselfs, how far we will go and at what level something might annoy us. Some can live with a bit more distortion from a speaker, and still be very happy. So everyone does not need to dig for perfection, but might just be happy to smooth out the worst problems.
You can't correct the room, because of what I just wrote above. Many people average what they measure and stay happy with what they can get, with a bit of smoothing of the worst problems - simply ignoring the rest. And for sure, this can improve things quite a bit.

But if a speaker has a design flaw, that creates an uneven dispersion, a suck-out between drivers, an edge resonance or maybe a too narrow cabinet, that will not support the lower frequencies of a midrange(baffle step) - then you can't correct this with EQ. Because all these challenges, are all in 3 dimensions and complex by nature - and both the speaker driver and any manipulation with any type of EQ - can only change the "in and out" movement - which equates to 2 dimensions.

FIR can correct the phase, but then delay's all frequencies in time, to fit the lowest corrected frequency - and it is not simple to get it right, without sounding really weird. Again - a change should have more pro's than con's, to be worth it.

To sum up. A DSP is a wonderful tool. And especially at low frequencies, we can really do some wonders. But higher up in frequencies - things start to change, and we can no longer use the same tricks.
2D problems can be solved with EQ - a 2D tool. Room problems are in 3D - and needs to be corrected in the room.

You can do very cool things with a DSP - if you have more drivers and amplifiers, like with Beolab 50 and 90, or Kii3. But that is a bit above DIY in many cases.

Hope this helped in some way. It's not an easy issue to wrap our head around. So sometimes we need to read about it in different ways, to finally grasp the ways that sound and our hearing works. I still read about it, to better figure out, if I understood at all, what I was doing - cause it's a BIG subject :)
 

FrantzM

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yep. I know my limits.

I'll just twiddle the knob on my sub until it sounds appropriate

cheers

EDIT - WAIT I think I get it - it's a DAC!??? AKA I would have to totally ditch my Topping E30 and go with a subpar DAC in order to gain DSP/bass management??

It is up to you. Results will be similar to lottery... It might work but, for subwoofer integration, more is usually required. miniDSP.com has a range of products that will help. Some of them can actually do it in an semi-automatic fashion. The "semi" part (learning how to measure and how it works) is not easy but accessible. Takes time to learn but once done: Better results/reproduction from your audio system at a reasonable cost.
 

knownunknown

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To put it very simple. If we for the sake of argument, forget that speaker drivers can have more than just linear distortion. Then a speaker driver can only move in and out - 2 way - 2 dimensions.
This means that an equalizer - both analog or digital - like the miniDSP, has the potential to adjust the level of this - in and out motion - at all frequencies, until you get an equal amount of energy from - let's say - a mid/woofer like the SB17 driver. Of course there are limits, the driver will never be able to play deeper or higher in frequency, then what it is designed to do, but within it's workable pass band, we can smooth it out and get a better and more neutral response.
Then follows two problems.
Firstly, there are limits to how much and with which filters you adjust the levels with any DSP or equalizer. EQ simply moves the phase too, which means that you move some frequencies in time - more than others. Luckily within certain limits, we simply can't hear this, but it all adds up, so again we have to work smart with these tools.
Secondly, as soon as the sound leaves a speaker driver - all comes into play. Flush mounting the driver, edges on the cabinet, the shape of the cabinet, all surfaces around the speaker and the distance to each and every one of them too.
This is very important. Because everything that comes out of a speaker, plays in many directions - but the speaker driver can still only move in and out.
All the soundwaves that emit from a speaker, will at some point hit a wall, floor or something else. As a wave expands through the air, it will hit many objects and each time reflect in new different directions and at new smaller levels. But in the end - everything gets mixed up. So if you measure the speaker with the room in one exact place in the room - you will get one exact and unique response, because of all the countless reflections of that specific room, with that specific placement of your speaker and that specific placement of the microphone.
This means that the original change that you made in the DSP/EQ, can only be true/correct - at that one spot in your room - not even the same for each of your ears - even if you sit at the exact same spot every time.
Also timing comes into play, because we as humans, has a limit to how easy we can separate sound in time - which also change with frequency. This is why dampening our rooms a bit, really helps with sound quality, from any speaker. Very roughly speaking - any sound reflection that arrives to our ears before around 20ms - smears the sound. And if they are delayed more than around 20ms - it adds "room" or spaciousness. Again - this a rule of thumb. It is a bit more complicated when going into detail :)
This is why we measure off-axis. Because if we can build a speaker, so that it sounds the same in all directions, then all the reflections will be much closer to the original sound and therefore not ruin the sound image - even if we move our head around during a heated moment of our favorite music.
To make it the most precise and neutral sounding speakers, that does not intervene or adds its own "sound flavor" to the music. We simply have to ask ourselfs, how far we will go and at what level something might annoy us. Some can live with a bit more distortion from a speaker, and still be very happy. So everyone does not need to dig for perfection, but might just be happy to smooth out the worst problems.
You can't correct the room, because of what I just wrote above. Many people average what they measure and stay happy with what they can get, with a bit of smoothing of the worst problems - simply ignoring the rest. And for sure, this can improve things quite a bit.

But if a speaker has a design flaw, that creates an uneven dispersion, a suck-out between drivers, an edge resonance or maybe a too narrow cabinet, that will not support the lower frequencies of a midrange(baffle step) - then you can't correct this with EQ. Because all these challenges, are all in 3 dimensions and complex by nature - and both the speaker driver and any manipulation with any type of EQ - can only change the "in and out" movement - which equates to 2 dimensions.

FIR can correct the phase, but then delay's all frequencies in time, to fit the lowest corrected frequency - and it is not simple to get it right, without sounding really weird. Again - a change should have more pro's than con's, to be worth it.

To sum up. A DSP is a wonderful tool. And especially at low frequencies, we can really do some wonders. But higher up in frequencies - things start to change, and we can no longer use the same tricks.
2D problems can be solved with EQ - a 2D tool. Room problems are in 3D - and needs to be corrected in the room.

You can do very cool things with a DSP - if you have more drivers and amplifiers, like with Beolab 50 and 90, or Kii3. But that is a bit above DIY in many cases.

Hope this helped in some way. It's not an easy issue to wrap our head around. So sometimes we need to read about it in different ways, to finally grasp the ways that sound and our hearing works. I still read about it, to better figure out, if I understood at all, what I was doing - cause it's a BIG subject :)

can‘t wrap my head around it 100% but i get the gist of it, thank you so much for the detailed reply!
 
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