What do you think about Klipsch and other high efficiency speakers?

[Fluffy]

In other words, are horns worth it? What's the down side? Are there more capable brands that make high efficiency/high sensitivity speakers? is there a way other than horns of (economically) achieving that goal?

 

[solderdude]

I have heard excellent and poor sounding horn speakers, excellent and poor sounding dynamic speakers, excellent and poor sounding planar speakers.

All of them have upsides and downsides.
Horns are generally higher in efficiency which is the main (but not the only) reason to use it.

Someday someone invents a horn headphone that can reach 130dB SPL from a phone rendering the need for headphone amps pointless.
Suggestion:

 

[KozmoNaut]

I like Klipsch a lot, the RP-600Ms were on my shortlist when I was buying new speakers recently. They've managed to tame the horn shoutyness/honk factor extremely well, and the result is that their current line of speakers are superbly dynamic and give a nice "live" feel to anything you play.

 

[MZKM]

There’s good horns and bad horns, good metal tweeters and bad metal tweeters, etc. there is no restriction on so on sonic quality based on design or materials (i.e. a soft dome tweeter can sound better than a beryllium one).

based on measurements, the RP-600M is a very good speaker for the price, the directivty control is astonishing for <$650:

I would use little to no toe-in and have EQ/DSP applied, but still, it’s good for the money.

 

[Fluffy]

@MZKM Can you please interpret that plot for me? Why does that represent good directivity control, and how would a bad one look like?

 

[digicidal]

In general, the broader the "plateau" the less directive the speaker. Also the slower the "slope" the more gradual the roll off so the less noticeable if you move your head/seat position. Obviously lower frequencies are less directional in nature so it's usually only the highs that get "messy". Note that chart starts at ~270Hz or so... but is totally flat until around 700Hz... where the sound starts becoming directional and rolling off in the 60-90 degree area.

 

[Ron Texas]

Some people really like high efficiency speakers. However, we have more choices since high powered amplifiers became common and relatively inexpensive. Once upon a time all we had was tubes

 

[digicidal]

Why does that represent good directivity control, and how would a bad one look like?

Magnepan LRS:

And yet, I still kinda want a pair of them.

 

[Fluffy]

Some people really like high efficiency speakers. However, we have more choices since high powered amplifiers became common and relatively inexpensive. Once upon a time all we had was tubes

Do high sensitivity speakers offer lower distortion at high SPL?

Magnepan LRS:
View attachment 36534

And yet, I still kinda want a pair of them.

I've heard some Magnepans at a show, and yeah they sound impressive (for the few mintues I heard them anyway…). Could there be an advantage to speakers with more directivity? They would interact less with the room, wouldn't they?

 

[Ron Texas]

@Fluffy you asked a great question, and I don't know the answer.

 

[anmpr1]

I'm using La Scala II speakers. I guess Klipsch are the most well-known horn brand. I would never advise anyone to buy these, or K-horns, without a home demo. Really, any speaker. But definitely these. Problem with that is they are so large it's difficult to move them about--it takes two people to really do the job. Of course the corner horn requires very specific placement, so unless you are architecturally set up for it, you can't use it. The La Scala is a little more flexible in that regard, but doesn't go down as low in the bass region. Both are physically imposing. Especially the La Scala which requires a very large space. The K-horn can sort of be 'hidden' in a corner.

Both are not what I'd call cheap, but in the context of horns, they are not exactly expensive, either.

Power-wise, you can use the proverbial 8-watt SET and still get loud sound. I use a low noise 100 watt/ch amp without problems. I don't know that you would need much more than that, ever.

 

[anmpr1]

Do high sensitivity speakers offer lower distortion at high SPL?

Klipschorn measurement, Richard Heyser reported a few tenths of a percent THD at 100mW to 10% at 60 watts input. 10 watts IM was 4%, or so. "Loud and clean" were his words.

 

[Fluffy]

Klipschorn measurement, Richard Heyser reported a few tenths of a percent THD at 100mW to 10% at 60 watts input. 10 watts IM was 4%, or so. "Loud and clean" were his words.

When were these measurements taken? How do those numbers translate to practical SPL, and how to they compare to other speakers?

 

[anmpr1]

When were these measurements taken? How do those numbers translate to practical SPL, and how to they compare to other speakers?

November 1986, Audio magazine. Here's the link:

http://www.soundhifi.com/klipsch/86horn.htm

 

[Fluffy]

That's a lot of info there. From the last graph it appears that for the tones tested it stays under 1% even at 105 SPL, which sounds impressive. But 1986 was a long time ago, and I assume both speakers technology and measuring techniques has improved since then, so I don't know how much this reflects on the current status of horn speakers.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Do high sensitivity speakers offer lower distortion at high SPL?

I don't know the answer to this. I suspect it might vary by manufacturer.

Distortion usually rises with excursion, which places greater mechanical stress on the cones. Also, high excursion increases inertia in anything with mass (F=M*A).

Some specialized types of drivers do well in the low and middle ranges. You can see this in main driver roll-off frequencies (assuming the roll-off is not crossover mediated), which is the driver's saying "hey, I'm having difficulty reproducing these frequencies either on my own or with this cabinet geometry.

So anyone wishing to minimize distortion may wish to get a sub and high pass bookshelf or main speakers in a way that keeps the smaller woofers from extending too low. Or, ideally, match a good set of three way speakers to a sub.

This is all general speaker theory, so YMMV depending on the speakers and subs you're looking at.

 

[Midwest Blade]

Used to DJ back in my college days with a set of Cerwin Vega V30's, I consistently was complemented on the system sounding clear and loud, built to take a beating they still sounded okay when set up between my gigs. Back in those days Altec, JBL, Electro-Voice, Klipsch, Cerwin Vega were all putting out some great horn and high efficiency speakers.

Speakers to me are still the main piece of any audio system equation, finding and buying what you like can be a matter of trial and error. Horn loaded speakers have a great history and are still relevant in today's discussion. Worth listening to if you can.

 

[Severian]

I went to an audio show last year full of high dollar stuff (although no presence from brands I consider more science-driven) and by far the best system I heard was a La Scala setup that was actually among the cheaper things on display.

Personally I've been very curious about the high-efficiency designs from DIY Sound Group that use pro woofers and compression drivers with the SEOS waveguide.

 

[Sal1950]

In other words, are horns worth it? What's the down side? Are there more capable brands that make high efficiency/high sensitivity speakers? is there a way other than horns of (economically) achieving that goal?

I owned a set of La Scala's for 32 years doing a couple crossover/driver updates along the way. They have some incredible strengths but also some weaknesses. I'd still own them if they'd have fit in my new retirement digs.
Sure there are a lot of others, JBL, Volti, Devore, Some Legacy, come quickly to mind. Most horn speakers will offer high efficiency.
Main downsides are difficult to get flat frequency response and size. Doing low bass in horns requires very large mouth sizes if you want to dig deep.

 

[Xulonn]

Some horn alternatives LINK