What did it take for your phono system to sound “right” to you?

[rdenney]

TD166 eh? I have some upgrade ideas for you and sometimes, eBay is your friend for parts... Just DON'T use a record weight as the main bearing thrust plate isn't the strongest (I have a well loved/used TD160mk2 here and the well loved bearing was worn out until I added a 1mm ptfe pad which has fixed it, at least for now)

No worries on that score. My bearing is largely unworn and I use it rarely enough to keep in that way. And after tuning up the suspension, I wouldn’t want to have to do it again after putting a record weight or some other doodad on it.

I did replaced the plastic pulley with one of those aluminum jobs, and I use an external power supply (a Music Hall Cruise Control) to allow the use of only the larger pulley (and not the derailleur). I adjusted the bearings in the tone arm, meticulously aligned the cartridge, replaced the rusty springs, and made sure everything else was in a state of good repair.

And I bought a new dust cover, and installed a Q-up.

Oh, and I replaced the bottom cover with one that has leveling feet, and put that on an isolation pad that I didn’t actually need.

Rick “no need for further tweaks” Denney

 

[MCH]

In case it helps, if someone wants to avoid weights not to damage bearings these clamps do the job without adding weight:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Dynavox-...&keywords=plattenklemme&qid=1629217171&sr=8-5

 

[DSJR]

Notts Analogue Spacemat does it for me... perfect record support, no boom if record tapped when playing unlike thin felt things and UK-cheap to try and buy... My comments on the main bearing hold firm irrespective of the oil used. This 160 didn't spin for ever and a day' as they did when new and cleaning out whatever was in there (certainly not the wee coloured turbine oil originally fitted) showed a massive dimple on the thrust plate. These bearings are sweated? into the pressed sub-chassis' so i was able to procure a ptfe disc of suitable diameter which I pushed into position and then used the proper Thorens oil (now Mobil DTE-heavy). Platter now takes an age to slow to a stop and 1mm ride height is easily taken by the arm.

The 166 suffered with the plastic inner hub and I always prefered the cast one from the TD160 (different main spindle sizes though so care needed if replacing). Using the Thorens or identical Thakker belt, these bloody things all run fast like most Regas and it put me off the one here (which is mostly to 'Super spec' all bar the internal damping sheets). A third party belt which is thicker, won't change speed with the built in 'guide fork' but the deck runs spot on, so go figure...

I have an SME fixed head arm here that originally came with the deck and now I have the Super mdf armboard for it, I should resurrect it again really, but it's in a queue - cough...

 

[rdenney]

Notts Analogue Spacemat does it for me... perfect record support, no boom if record tapped when playing unlike thin felt things and UK-cheap to try and buy... My comments on the main bearing hold firm irrespective of the oil used. This 160 didn't spin for ever and a day' as they did when new and cleaning out whatever was in there (certainly not the wee coloured turbine oil originally fitted) showed a massive dimple on the thrust plate. These bearings are sweated? into the pressed sub-chassis' so i was able to procure a ptfe disc of suitable diameter which I pushed into position and then used the proper Thorens oil (now Mobil DTE-heavy). Platter now takes an age to slow to a stop and 1mm ride height is easily taken by the arm.

The 166 suffered with the plastic inner hub and I always prefered the cast one from the TD160 (different main spindle sizes though so care needed if replacing). Using the Thorens or identical Thakker belt, these bloody things all run fast like most Regas and it put me off the one here (which is mostly to 'Super spec' all bar the internal damping sheets). A third party belt which is thicker, won't change speed with the built in 'guide fork' but the deck runs spot on, so go figure...

I have an SME fixed head arm here that originally came with the deck and now I have the Super mdf armboard for it, I should resurrect it again really, but it's in a queue - cough...

My 166 actually runs a hair slow with a Thorens belt. That's another reason I use a Cruise Control--it gives me a way to micro-adjust the frequency of the power supply and therefore the speed.

Plastic bushing in a 166? Oh, you mean the central platter. It's lighter, but the outer platter is still heavy and that's where it has more momentum. When I remove the belt, my platter will spin for quite a long time. Belt hysteresis damps that, of course. You are correct that the platter shaft on a 166 is 7mm in diameter, not the 10 found on most 160's. But it still runs in a sintered bronze bushing, with a hardened steel spherical tip that rides on a bronze plate. Both are submerged in oil, of course, which is not true for a lot of old tables that have not been properly maintained.

I thought about finding a 160 sub-plinth and a 10mm inner platter, but then I thought, why? Mine runs just fine as it is, given that I have decided I don't hear the usual flaws and distortions inherent in vinyl LP playback.

Rick "keeping it as it was, mostly, because it was completely competent when new" Denney

 

[Hilltop]

Had a uturn audio with AT cart. Lots of IGD with anything rock. Moved to a Rega P6/Exact and it sounds great run into my audiolab direct, no external preamp needed.
Sometimes the best "tweak" is to buy better equipment.
Footfalls are a problem and will wall mount it soon.

 

[levimax]

I am skeptical of the potentially self serving Jico published stylus wear recomendations ranging from 150 hours for an eliptical to 500 hours for a line contact https://www.jico-stylus.com/2019/07/elementor-9582/ but every time I have replaced a stylus I get an improvement in tracking and distortion especially IGD and eveything sounds "right".

 

[Chazz6]

When I play a file or CD that has been "improved" (degraded), I play a vinyl selection next, and it sounds good!

More seriously, I have an aged mid-market turntable (Pioneer PL-112D) and an inexpensive TCC TC-750 phono amp. The Pioneer had an old beat-up cartridge when I bought it. Swapping in an Audio-Technica cartridge made a big difference, and now I can hear just how well or badly the record was recorded and mastered.

 

[RayKay]

What did it take for my phono system to sound right?

In chronological order:

>High compliance cartridge with low mass viscous damped unipivot arm (early 70’s)

>Servo driven linear tracker with very low mass viscous damped unipivot arm (mid 70’s)

>Tailored R & C cartridge loading (mid 70’s)

>Yamaha CD-X1 CD player (1984)

It was my observation that the most significant advantage of the linear tracker wasn’t a reduction of tracking error but rather the elimination of the pernicious effects of side forces on the stylus/cantilever that result from skating. Antiskating devices are unable to dynamically compensate for changes in stylus drag that come with groove modulation transients. A loud cymbal crash can act as a step function that triggers mass/compliance resonance which, in turn, results in stylus scrubbing. Stylus scrubbing causes FM distortion which can sometimes be audible. Damping also helps with this.

Of course, the CD player had no direct effect on my phono system, but it did cure me of a bad bout of perfectionitis. I was so enamored with the CD’s absence of ticks, pops, pinch warp scrubbing effects, swishing noises, orange peel rumble, [insert your favorite vinyl deficiency here], that I was able to relax and enjoy my phono system for what it is. I still tinker with it today but now it’s just fun and relaxation, no longer an OCD or feeling like I have the curse of Sisyphus.

I haven’t bought any new vinyl since I got the CD player.

 

[antennaguru]

Phono always sounded "right" to me. The very first CD player I bought in 1985 my wife made be take back and return the very next day because those first few CDs sounded so terrible compared to playing the "same" records.

Yes, I have made continual improvements to my phono systems over the years, and they sound quite amazing today.

Yes, many CDs finally sound amazing too - however, many times the "same" LP record still sounds a lot better than the "same" CD because the record mastering was superior, and there was less of a loudness war than was seen for CDs...

 

[rwortman]

My digital player surpassed my vinyl player sometime in the 90’s. I still have a vinyl collection and a pretty good player(VPI Scout/AT VM740ML) but it really only gets used once every couple of months. Old music tends to sound better on vinyl only because the LP’s were mastered from nice fresh tapes and the digital transfers were done when the tapes were old and deteriorated. Still, a digital music server has spoiled me and I am not often in the mood to flip records all night.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

For me it was the following in order of most impactful

1. Moving to a linear power supply greatly reduced mains hum/ground loop
2. My PS Audio stellar phono premap
3. Sorbothane feet for my record player stand to reduce my footsteps on hardwood
4. Record weight

I spent so much time and effort to figure out why I was getting 60Hz hum leakage. One day I decided to test my turntable using my linear benchtop power supply and the noise was almost gone! I ended up designing a very quiet 12V linear power supply for my turntable. It worked so well I'm considering selling them.

 

[rwortman]

For me it was the following in order of most impactful

1. Moving to a linear power supply greatly reduced mains hum/ground loop
2. My PS Audio stellar phono premap
3. Sorbothane feet for my record player stand to reduce my footsteps on hardwood
4. Record weight

I spent so much time and effort to figure out why I was getting 60Hz hum leakage. One day I decided to test my turntable using my linear benchtop power supply and the noise was almost gone! I ended up designing a very quiet 12V linear power supply for my turntable. It worked so well I'm considering selling them.

What turntable? Mine only has AC power to an AC motor. No path from AC to cartridge.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

What turntable? Mine only has AC power to an AC motor. No path from AC to cartridge.

It is the Audio Technica + Drop Collab. I upgraded the cartridge to a Sumiko Songbird when I bought it. I don't think there's a path from the cartridge to the power, but the difference switching out the included supply made was astounding.

 

[Angsty]

What turntable? Mine only has AC power to an AC motor. No path from AC to cartridge.

Looks like this one has a built in preamp which could be susceptible to noise.

 

[Angsty]

It is the Audio Technica + Drop Collab. I upgraded the cartridge to a Sumiko Songbird when I bought it. I don't think there's a path from the cartridge to the power, but the difference switching out the included supply made was astounding.

iFi also produces low noise replacement power supplies, but theirs are not linear.

iPower2 by iFi audio - Ultra Low Noise DC Power Supply with international options.

Power up your system. Upgrade your existing power supply to the iFi iPower2 to flood your system with quiet, noise-free audiophile-grade clean power.

ifi-audio.com

 

[Balle Clorin]

This has always sounded good, but leveling the belt and feet in an optimal way has reduced wow&flutter below 0.1% Made A difference, next improvement was realigning cartridge geometry for more correct HTA, and Azimuth and anti skate based on test record measurements, next to optimize and play with is the VTA

 

[WDeranged]

Getting rid of a Rega Planar 1+ with its built in (shite) pre-amp and replacing it with a standard Planar 1. Buying a Zen Phono after trying two or three other competing units. Getting a SugarCube to remove pops n clicks. Installing a VM95ML to massively reduce distortion and sibilance.

I'm incredibly satisfied with my setup now. Can't see myself making any crazy upgrades for a few years. Maybe a sidegrade to the Planar 2.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I recently cataloged many, but probably not all, of the “tweaks” I made after my last turntable purchase to get it to sound “right” to me

Curious on what it was that did not sound. “right” before?
As for me vinyl always sounded right, but record dependant until I purchased a Nitty Gritty vacuum disk cleaner. That is a crucial part of getting more stable results and having to clean the needle less often.
Upgrade after upgrade from the TT itself to the arm and to the cartridge it sounded better and better, huge gain at the beginning to minor and more expensive gain at the end.
On paper digital since the arrival of CD is supposed to be “better”, but in practice, my experience does not always reflect the superiority of digital. So I keep using both, since I have both. In a perfect world, digital should rule all audio, I guess I do not live in a perfect world.

 

[Angsty]

Curious on what it was that did not sound. “right” before?

Well, my second system was not sounding "right" just today. I swapped an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge for a Nagaoka MP-300 today and something was not sounding "right". I'm chaulking it up to using the Pioneer PLX-1000 pseudo-Stevenson alignment in the manual instead of a proper Baerwald alignment. Will whip out the Geodisc later and give it another shot. The Geodisc itself is another tweakers' tool.

 

[MRC01]

... The Geodisc itself is another tweakers' tool.

I got much better results with the DB systems 2 point alignment gauge.